As an inflatable snowman towers over the neighborhood, marking the commencement of holiday festivities, friend of the pod Justin Hentges and I cozy up to reminisce about the year's gems and share our yuletide reflections. Our chat meanders from the screen to the soundwaves, where the siren songs of the year tug at our heartstrings. We also share our excitement for the new melodies 2024 promises, and the artistic resilience of icons like The Judds, Tina Turner, Sinead O'Connor, Celine Dion and Julie Andrews. We traverse our travel highlights, from the stunning theaters of London to the understated beauty of Helsinki. And we take stock of the stories that have moved us, from the overlooked activists who've paved the way for the rights we enjoy today, to the chilling narratives that remind us of our society's darker chapters.
Santa even sends a special message to Deep Dive listeners from his frosty enclave in the North Pole!
With the curtain closing on 2023, the Deep Dive family sends out heartfelt holiday cheer to you and yours.
Mentioned:
Great British Bake-Off
The Expanse
Reservation Dogs
Virgin River
Mascarpone
Oppenheimer
Barbie
Love Again
Trailed – Kathryn Miles
To Make Men Free - Heather Cox Richardson
Unthinkable – Jamie Raskin
Lincoln on the Verge - Ted Widmer
Boy with the Bullhorn - Ron Goldberg
-------------------------
Follow Deep Dive:
Instagram
Post.news
YouTube
Email: deepdivewithshawn@gmail.com
**Artwork: Dovi Design
**Music: Joystock
As an inflatable snowman towers over the neighborhood, marking the commencement of holiday festivities, friend of the pod Justin Hentges and I cozy up to reminisce about the year's gems and share our yuletide reflections. Our chat meanders from the screen to the soundwaves, where the siren songs of the year tug at our heartstrings. We also share our excitement for the new melodies 2024 promises, and the artistic resilience of icons like The Judds, Tina Turner, Sinead O'Connor, Celine Dion and Julie Andrews. We traverse our travel highlights, from the stunning theaters of London to the understated beauty of Helsinki. And we take stock of the stories that have moved us, from the overlooked activists who've paved the way for the rights we enjoy today, to the chilling narratives that remind us of our society's darker chapters.
Santa even sends a special message to Deep Dive listeners from his frosty enclave in the North Pole!
With the curtain closing on 2023, the Deep Dive family sends out heartfelt holiday cheer to you and yours.
Mentioned:
Great British Bake-Off
The Expanse
Reservation Dogs
Virgin River
Mascarpone
Oppenheimer
Barbie
Love Again
Trailed – Kathryn Miles
To Make Men Free - Heather Cox Richardson
Unthinkable – Jamie Raskin
Lincoln on the Verge - Ted Widmer
Boy with the Bullhorn - Ron Goldberg
-------------------------
Follow Deep Dive:
Instagram
Post.news
YouTube
Email: deepdivewithshawn@gmail.com
**Artwork: Dovi Design
**Music: Joystock
I actually clicked the wrong button and so I bought a 20 foot inflatable snowman and set that up recently and it was. It was a spectacle and the neighbors came out and were watching and people stopped their cars to look and I was like yep, I'm that neighbor now.
Shawn:Yeah, I saw. We'll see what happens. I saw some photos of that. Almost taller than your house.
Justin:It is actually taller than the house. It just hits the top, what would be the top of the chimney, like, yeah, so it is. It is massive.
Shawn:But you know what?
Justin:brings joy to people and at least my neighbors know who I am. Yeah, for sure.
Shawn:Oh, and that's, it's a good direction. We're two houses down from this. You'll know what we're talking about.
Justin:Right, exactly, exactly.
Shawn:Welcome to Deep Dive with me, s C Fettig. Happy holidays everybody. We are releasing this episode on Christmas Eve, so if you celebrate Merry Christmas, regardless of where you are or what you're doing, I hope you're enjoying the season, be it with family or friends or pets, or maybe just enjoying some well earned you time In honor of the season. Today's episode is a special one. I'm joined by friend of the pod, justin Hentges, to talk about some of our favorite things of 2023. Favorite books, favorite music, movies, tv trips, experiences, etc. And also what we're looking forward to in 2024. There are some laughs, some reflections, some poignancy, some hope. Maybe you can relate to some of this and maybe it makes you reflect positively on your own year, on some of those things that have brought you joy. But before we get there, I did check in with Santa Claus via the chatbot Claude, and asked him about his favorite things of 2023. And this is the message he sent hot off the presses today, christmas Eve, 2023. It says this message should be read with the sound of jingle bells chiming softly, with a hint of jazz in the background. Okay, this is the message. Ho, ho, ho, and a merry almost Christmas to you. Deep dive listeners.
Shawn:Santa Claus here reporting live from the North Pole, taking a quick break from toy wrangling and reindeer wrangling. Rudolph still has a thing for Rudolph, the Red Nose reindeer karaoke. Bless his sparkly antlers. But what's a Santa to do between wrapping sprees and chimney sprinting? Why reflect on the year's finest moments? Of course Now, 2023 wasn't your average bowl of milk and cookies kind of year.
Shawn:We had our ups and downs. A rogue elf tried to invent self-wrapping presents. Let's just say glitter never sleeps. Rudolph accidentally died his fur hot pink during a failed hair fluffing experiment. Mrs Claus still calls him Rosie the reindeer. And let's not forget the great gingerbread house incident of 23. Spoiler alert gingerbread walls make terrible snowball forts. But hey, who focuses on the lumps in the eggnog when you have mums of sugar plum? Goodness, to save her.
Shawn:This year my heart overflowed with more joy than a hot cocoa fountain. Remember that. Remember that little girl who wished for a pet unicorn. Her face when she found a sparkly slipper from a lost unicorn's ballet recital Pure magic, I tell you. And the boy who wrote me a poem about his grandma, the cookie queen, the cookie queen of Bumbleberry Bend Cheers in my beard.
Shawn:That one, of course, it wasn't all sugar plum fairies and reindeer rops. I saw kindness bloom in unexpected places A shy penguin sharing his fish with a lost polar bear cub, a family of yetis, a family of yetis donating their warmest scars to a shivering snowman. It's moments like these that remind me Christmas isn't just about presents under the tree. It's about the twinkle in your eyes, the warmth in your mittens and the song in your heart. So, as the snow settles and the elves finish their caroling practice, bless their squeaky voices, I want to say thank you. Thank you for your kindness, your laughter and your spirit that shines brighter than Rudolph's nose on a foggy night. Remember, even when the world feels like a bowl of lumpy mashed potatoes, there's always a sprinkle of Christmas magic waiting to be found.
Shawn:Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a date with a plate of Mrs Claus's gingerbread double strength this year for the incident, naturally. But before I go, let me remind you don't forget the milk and cookies. Keep your stockings hung by the chimney with care, and a merry Christmas to all, and the jingle bells should be fading into a cheerful holiday tune. All right, stay safe, santa. If you like this episode, or any episode, please give it a like on your favorite podcast platform and or subscribe to the podcast on YouTube. And, as always, if you have any thoughts, questions or comments, please feel free to email deepdivewithshawn at gmailcom. Let's do a deep dive, justin. Merry Christmas, happy holidays. How are you? Merry Christmas Shawn , I'm doing well.
Justin:How are you doing? I'm doing well as well.
Shawn:What are you doing for Christmas? I am doing nothing.
Justin:Just hanging out, hanging out with some friends and having a very relaxing, no drama holiday. How about you?
Shawn:Yeah, same, that's the plan, Right right, see where the night takes us, huh Okay, so I thought that for Christmas I would try to shift a little bit away from the fatalistic, dire conversations that I have been having Lately on the podcast and instead would focus on some fun things, and so I thought it'd be fun to have you here and we could talk about some of our favorite things of the year. Well, that sounds great, but I prepared all of this material on all of the bad things that have happened.
Justin:And now, where am I going to use that? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, so the rules are.
Shawn:I mean, I don't, it's a very non-restrictive rule, which is so we're going to be talking about 2023, but the same thing. So we're going to be talking about 2023, but the stuff that we touch on doesn't have to be stuff that was made or created or released or anything in 2023. It just has to be something we experienced in 2023.
Justin:Sounds good.
Shawn:Okay. I can do that. Okay. Where should we start? Should we start with something I think we should?
Justin:start with music.
Shawn:Okay.
Justin:What is your favorite thing you've been listening to this year?
Shawn:Well, Spotify always tells me.
Justin:So what was your number one, Shawn?
Shawn:I discovered this singer. He's not new, but he's new to me. His name is JS Andara and I think he's Kenyan, I think. But he lives in the United States and he has kind of this like foxy Americana vibe to him and I really. But he's got this also almost like international sensibility to his lyrics. It's really cool. I really like him. But I was like reintroduced this year, obviously for sad reasons. But to Shanae O'Connor, yes, I think she just didn't get a lot of the credit she deserves. So after her death I started listening to her music again. It's just good music. It's good, heartfelt, like what you want music to be, not just poppy and disconnected. You know which is also good, yeah, yeah.
Justin:Music can fit different moods or different times, but the singer, songwriters that you know really help you connect with maybe a place in yourself that you didn't even know existed. I haven't listened to Shanae O'Connor and tell her death, and that's what I found has happened a lot. It's like when folks, when you hear someone's passing or something like that, I go back and then I listen to their music, even if I haven't listened to it, you know in a while, like Tina Turner, like Tina Turner, although, although I listened to Tina Turner, pretty regularly.
Shawn:I mean, she's on pretty regular rotation generally. I don't know that it's like when somebody dies. It's like you'd listen with a different ear. Yes, and like I definitely did that with Tina and I think it was for the first time, you know, instead of just being like an earworm or like a catchy song or like feeling kind of powerful, she really had an amazing voice.
Justin:Yes, yeah, yeah. And then the art. You're hearing the art in it, right? Not just the singing, but the artistic quality to it. What about you? I mean I, you know it's funny because after one of our last conversations last year, I started listening to country music hardcore again like really getting into it, but really have, for the most part, stuck with the female artists.
Justin:So my Spotify top five were actually the chicks songs because I am a little bit of a fan in the lab in 13 months, so, and three of them were in 2023. I saw the chicks and concert four times three different countries, two different continents, and the last one, which was in the DC area, was so random. I was there for work and was able to get tickets and I bought them like the week before and I was front row center, oh wow, and like just lost my mind because, both the fun kind of pop, country right, but also especially with some of their newer album, like just some very kind of soulful pieces and just I don't know.
Shawn:There was just something about it that when that album came out and previous albums has always spoke to me, so it was really cool seeing them. But it also allowed me to like.
Justin:I saw Mayor Morris when I was in Sweden she opened for the chicks and so getting into her music more Ashley McBride. And then like all of the like nineties women like Shania and Faith and Trisha, and like just diving back into that and seeing what they've done since then.
Shawn:And I don't know.
Justin:There's just something about it that was like almost healing, given how long I had not listened to country because of everything. So it was really cool. How is their show? Uh, phenomenal, I just I, yeah, I really liked it. I thought they had they bring good energy. Their band is amazing. Um, just the skill level there. It is funny when you see artists multiple times on their same tour, like by the third or fourth, like for sure the fourth show, but even by the third show, I was like, oh, I know what jokes coming Uh, oh, really, I always wonder about that.
Shawn:Yeah.
Justin:But then, but then they also make it, you know, fresh, right, it's, it's kind of I mean, it's, it's a kind of neat thing to see how an artist can, um, you know, play the same song over and over and yet make it fresh, you know, a little fresh each time, and so yeah, so it was fun.
Shawn:Did they do ready to run?
Justin:They do ready to run Gosh. I shouldn't know this.
Shawn:Yes, I think so Wait, I have their set list.
Justin:Hold on. Now I got to know this.
Shawn:Wait, as in like you created your own set list or you stole theirs.
Justin:Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, so it depended on the show. Um, they either, but they did do ready to run. Um, at least two of the nights I was there. No, the last concert, the last time when I was in the front row I got afterwards. Stage crew comes out and they give the set list and then um, I also got a guitar pick.
Shawn:Wait, the stage crew cut. There's only a handful of set lists.
Justin:Yeah, so they just what hand to anybody who gets there first, or they like at the end of the end of the show, like I guess I didn't know this was a thing, but I guess this is a thing, like if you're in the front row, like you hang out after the concert because I guess you get free stuff, I don't know, is that true? So I am basing this on an end of one, um, but anytime I'm in the front row again, I'm going to hang out and see what I can get.
Shawn:So I think they recognized you by this point.
Justin:Um, so I think they may have only because we were wearing T-shirts that were quite recognizable, yeah, yeah, and they had called them out before once, at the first concert and then at other ones, and it was yeah, so it was fun. Well, what was the T-shirt? All right, well, so now this is going to be a rabbit hole for a second. But there's a movie that is one of the Harley Quinn movies and in it one of the characters wears a T-shirt. That is a question that says I shaved my balls for this question mark, and so my partner wore that to their first show randomly and got called out. And so then we started wearing them to the other shows and got called out because it's a funny shirt.
Shawn:You know, it'd be amazing if that is the title of their next album. Oh my God.
Justin:Can you imagine I would? I would die, I would, I would be done Like, I would feel like my purpose on earth had been fulfilled at that point.
Shawn:Okay, Well, 2024, maybe we have something to talk about. Maybe hey did they. Did they play any new music?
Justin:Well, so they played. I mean, they played gaslighter right, and then they also. They played rainbow. What was the rainbow song? The one that Miley and Dalton, and so they played that rainbow land. Otherwise it was like there were no, as far as there were no new new songs.
Shawn:Yeah, like they weren't testing anything.
Justin:Right, no, no, no, no, not at all, although you know they did go after. After they left the States, they did go down to Australia and there was a moment where I was like about to hop on a plane to go to Oz and see if I could see them there, but then I realized that that was a little a little extensive.
Shawn:That would tip you into like a rupee, yeah, yeah.
Justin:That would. Yeah, that could be like. You know, that's like the start of like some sort of like and then he sold all of his stuff, and you know and I just want to go there.
Shawn:Okay. Have you been watching TV? Yes, okay.
Justin:What's the your favorite series?
Shawn:you watched this year, so I'm a couple.
Justin:So, first off, I just think the great British bake off is like one of the best shows and one of the best like obviously, reality shows, but just shows in general, and I just love like there's something about that hey, I want to learn how to bake and eat all of the things. Right, there's that. But then also the just the way it's. It's a competition, but it's like it brings out, like it's bringing out the best of these folks. Right, they're in competition but they're rooting for each other and they're helping each other and it just it feels so much nicer than kind of the the other competitions we see with the backstabbing and the forming alliances. It just, it's just fun.
Justin:And it's a nice kind of escape, I think, from some of the other stuff on TV. So that's that's one that I always enjoy when it comes out. And then I've watched the expanse, which I think is on like the fourth time I've watched it. You mentioned this last year.
Shawn:Yeah, I think this is a thing in the fall.
Justin:I guess I just like, I'm like, oh, I'm going to watch the expanse again. I don't know, I don't know. But I just love it. I love the space thing. And then my friend recently got me to start watching virgin river. Have you seen? Oh my God, this is such a soap opera.
Shawn:I know I just I'm like, I am not going to watch this.
Justin:I am not going to watch this and then like a half a day goes by. I've done no chores because I'm just sitting on the couch watching virgin river and you're actually paying attention Well, paying attention enough to go.
Shawn:That's not actually going to happen.
Justin:Or that couldn't possibly happen, or why are they allowing that to happen? Right, but yeah, so that's it. So the Brits space and some trashy TV. That's. That's what's on my TV. What about you? Well, that's on your TV.
Shawn:Have you watched reservation dogs.
Justin:I watched the first season yeah.
Shawn:It's kind of like laugh out loud and it's also really hard to watch because there's this like under current of the reality of life for people living on reservations and what you know the country is done. Yeah, one of my guests actually even mentioned this a few episodes ago. It is like what I think is like contemporary life on a reservation that isn't spun into something romantic and is actually devastating and yet doesn't leave you feeling like shit. I think it's just a. It's a really well done show. I really like it.
Justin:Cool, it's my turn. Yeah, you pick the next one.
Shawn:All right, no, why don't we just stick to?
Justin:the screen and just go with movies. What is what's the movies you've liked this year that have you've watched this year that have really stuck out to you?
Shawn:So full disclosure, I don't actually watch a lot of movies, and I think it's because I'm becoming a creature of our society, like I don't have an attention span. But one movie that I liked this year was Mass Carpone or Mass Carpone, do you know how to say?
Justin:it. You're asking somebody from Northern Wisconsin to pronounce a word. That's not.
Shawn:Okay, it's an Italian movie and it's this guy, so it's a married couple, and one of them is he supports the two of them. I think he's an architect, and then the other one is like the homemaker. The architect comes home one day and blindsides his husband and says you know, I don't want to be together anymore and I'm already dating someone it's like their best friend and tells him to move out. Well, this guy doesn't work. The whole movie is like a year in his life of like having to move out, find his own place, make new friends, get a job. I guess it also sounds formulaic, but it's just very sweet and poignant and funny at the same time.
Justin:No, that sounds great. I had not heard of that. I need to put that on my list. I think it's on Prime. Oh, I do have Prime.
Shawn:Prime has, like you have to dig, prime doesn't do a really good job of promoting stuff.
Justin:Yeah.
Shawn:But if you dig, it's got a lot of really good stuff on it.
Justin:Yeah, their user interface is not very good at all. But, I have found that, especially some foreign films that normally I wouldn't be able to find. So yeah, I totally appreciate that.
Shawn:What about you?
Justin:So I tend to watch the same things over and over, like from the late 80s, early 90s, and then once in a while, like you, throw on something more recent. But this year I mean so?
Shawn:I haven't gone, I mean because, of the pandemic and stuff like going to theaters.
Justin:For me it was not a thing I really liked to do, and so I didn't like it even before the pandemic.
Justin:But I saw Oppenheimer, which I thought was good. I saw Barbie, which I actually waited a number of months to see that and I'm glad I did because I was able to see the film. Versus kind of the hype there was okay. So you want to talk about just absolutely horrible, bad movie but I have watched like three times because it's so cheesy.
Justin:Is Love Again with Celine Dion, and I watch it just for the pieces. Didn't that just come out? It just came out and you've watched it like three times. Yes, I just watch it so that I can listen, so I can have the music on, and then I'll stop whenever I'm doing and listen to her little parts and then think, just go on with it, is it bad? Well, so I mean I've watched it three times but yeah, it's bad. I mean it's formulaic and cheesy and you know I mean, but it's. You know it's kind of again, it's the cute, like heartwarming story, and I think that's probably more like with all of these things. Like I like that, like with everything going on, you can just watch these things and feel like, oh yeah, I know stuff does work out and people can get through things and you know it's your brain knows that it's a formula, but it's a good formula.
Justin:She's had a rough couple of years right, I know.
Shawn:I know, cause, like she had, that she has the theme song for that movie, right Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But you can tell like she sounds great, but you can tell she's singing different.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, well, and just yeah. I mean that's the thing, like she's such a powerhouse of vocals and you know, and then, but it's still like you know. Maybe that's the reason I like it is like here's this person who you know.
Justin:I know, I thought was like oh, you know, she's always going to have this amazing voice and always be this amazing. You know be doing the concerts and all of that, and then you know, you never know what, what's going to happen next, and yet she's still out there, you know, trying to do. You know her art and I think that's admirable.
Shawn:I'm always fascinated when you have anybody that excels at something and then the, the one debilitating thing they get targets. That, yeah, you know, like that talent, yeah, it's always it's very sad.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, that was like with Julie Andrews, right, like she had the throat voice issue as well and she had such a, just a magical voice, such a powerful voice. You know, I think a lot of times, I don't know. I think like, if I just think about like that, like what if something happened, and what would I do? Like would you, would you kind of retreat into yourself, or would you try to persevere and figure out another way to you know, be you and I? Just I look at people that have these amazing talents and when something you know happens to them and they just they do pick themselves up and say, okay, I may not be able to sing anymore, but I can do something else, or I can still be me, Right? I don't know, it's just, it's neat to watch.
Shawn:Do you think she has another album coming out? Celine?
Justin:Yeah, oh, I would. I would love if she did so. I was supposed to see her, well, in November of 2019, and then that show got postponed to March of 2020, which then got postponed and then finally canceled, and I the next time. If Celine never performs again, I don't care the cost, I want to go, I will sit in the nosebleeds just to be there, because I think that she's just an amazing performer.
Shawn:Hosh got me a handful of her albums. Maybe it was for last Christmas, but it was like her newer stuff, which you know I may have listened to once or twice, but I, you know I'm kind of partial to her 90s, early 2000s stuff, yeah yeah. So he got me her newer albums and so I've, you know I listened to them this past year and they're they're so good, she's just so good.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah, it is funny because there are folks that, like you know, I listened to. I mean, this is kind of with like going back to like listening to folks you know the country folks I listened to, like I listened to them for so long and then I stopped and that's like rediscovering what they've been doing in the past 20 years and it's just like amazing.
Shawn:Last week we went to get some like Christmas records, Okay. So we went to a couple of used record stores and I came back with I mean, I came back with a handful, but I think I was a little surprised that my favorite one of them was the Judds Christmas. Oh my gosh, it's not new. But you know, it's like kind of also rediscovering the Judds and like the fascinating thing I think about the Judds is they don't actually have a wide range in their vocals, but the way that they sing and the way their voices blend together is, is there something so powerful?
Justin:and beautiful about it. I definitely agree with. Like that is an album. I remember that album.
Shawn:Like growing up, I mean, I think at that time we probably had the tape, you know the cassette tape.
Justin:But I remember like listening that was one of the things we'd listen to, like you know, when we're decorating the Christmas tree and my parents, my grandparents' house, it was more things like Binkroth being. You know that type of stuff on the record player. But I remember the Judds Christmas album and I have to listen to that. That's a good album. Okay, did you take any?
Shawn:trips this year. I did take some trips this year. Did any stand out?
Justin:Um, yeah, I went to. So I took a two week trip to Finland, sweden, norway and Denmark. Um, in the summer it was my first post pandemic like foreign over the pond trip and it was the first one where I had to fly from Seattle to Europe, which? I was just like oh my gosh, it takes forever to get over there.
Justin:But, I loved it. I had such a good time. Um, my family, a lot of my family is from Denmark, so that was really cool. That was the last part of my trip going to Copenhagen and being able to, like I don't know, just have that connection to where you know, one side of my family came from and it was just really cool to be over there and it was like I saw the chip.
Shawn:That was one of the places.
Justin:I saw the chicks was in Stockholm. I saw Bruce Springsteen when I was there, also in Sweden, and got to catch up with a college friend in Norway and just like otherwise, hang out and take the train and take the ferry and like bike around and just have like a non, like a non touristy trip in some ways, because I didn't, you know, I didn't do all of the like. I didn't have a lot of plans other than I was going to go to a place and hang out for a few days and then. So I just did whatever I wanted and felt like that day and it was really nice.
Shawn:And so you were alone. Oh, yeah, yeah, and you feel like, irrespective of the location, how do you, how do you feel about traveling alone?
Justin:I love traveling alone. I mean, I love traveling with my partner, like it's great, and I love traveling with friends, right. But I the thing I like about traveling alone is you, just you don't have anybody's itinerary, but you're on right.
Justin:So one of the days I was in I was actually in Bergen and I was walking around and I, you know, just walked up, saw one of the viewpoints from the hills, walked around, sat at a cafe for a while, had lunch, then walked, you know, and it was. I could have gone and seen a bunch of stuff like that, you know, I knew all the museums, but it was a nice day out and it was just nice walking and I so I thought you know, I'd rather do this than go to a museum right now.
Justin:And there was there was no negotiation with anyone else, right, it was just whatever I wanted to do, and so that was nice yeah.
Shawn:So I also, pash and I, typically will take one vacation a year that we just do separate from each other.
Justin:Yeah.
Shawn:And so I've been doing mine just by myself, and I have some friends that are literally appalled that I am married and travel alone. Really, yeah, people literally tell me I could never be away from my spouse for that long by myself. That's strange to me. Yeah, you know I'm not leaving because I don't want to be around Pash. I'm leaving. You know I'm doing this because this is just another part of myself that I enjoyed doing.
Justin:Right.
Justin:Right, no, that's exactly, I totally agree with that. It actually, like, has nothing to do with anybody else, right? It has just to do with you and wanting to have that experience and enjoying that part of yourself. I totally get that so good on you, well, and then. So let me ask you this, s do you are there times when well, first you know you're going to have to tell me about your favorite trip, but also are there times when you're on your trips alone where you're like, oh, I just had this cool experience. I really wish Pash was here, or are you just cutting him out and he doesn't exist for those weeks that you're gone?
Shawn:There are times where I want to do something and, for one reason or another, I feel like it would be more fun if Pash was there. But I think that's just, it's just something for us to like, talk about and then like, hey, maybe we should go back sometime and go together, you know? Yeah, well, actually that does. I think it's a good segue, because I took a trip by myself this year to Ireland. Ooh, I always wanted to go, so I went for eight or nine days in February. There are weather is very similar to ours here in Seattle. Okay, I absolutely loved it. It was fascinating to be some place that to be in like Ireland and have these new buildings integrated what I think is very beautifully with churches that are thousands of years old. It's fascinating. Have you ever been to Ireland?
Justin:I have not. It is definitely on my list of places I want to go.
Shawn:I've had a number of friends that have gone there. You included and everything I've heard about it just sounds amazing. Yeah, that's cool. And also like where there are flights now from Seattle that are there, direct Seattle to Dublin and they're like $500 round trip.
Justin:Well, maybe having a book of flight in 2020 for to go to Ireland For sure. So on that, on your trips what else was there? Any pleasant surprise or anything that you were like? I just didn't have any expectations here and while I was really blown away, or in Ireland or anywhere. Anywhere this year.
Shawn:Yeah, so we also went to London and this passion I did together and so they have like the West End which is kind of like their Broadway. So they had some shows and one of them that Posh got tickets to was Back to the Future oh really New Musical, which apparently is coming to Broadway. But I was kind of like this is going to be so stupid. It turned out to be like it was so good. Yeah, it was so good. It was like different enough to be interesting but so reminiscent of the movie and like the robotics were amazing. It was so good, oh, that's really neat.
Justin:I didn't even know that was a thing, yeah. So, do they start with the Huey Lewis and the new song Like? Does that at least end the musical?
Shawn:Yeah.
Justin:Yep.
Shawn:Okay, good.
Justin:Good, because that is what made those movies the car.
Shawn:You know how, at the end of the movie the car takes off right and then we get Back to the Future too. The freaking car like lifted and flew up over the audience and rotated and disappeared. Oh, that's really neat. I mean it was creepy because I was like I don't know how they're doing this, but this car it's a full on DeLorean is over my head. It was crazy.
Justin:That's so cool.
Shawn:That's so cool. What about you? Any pleasant surprises this year?
Justin:You know, I would say I mean travel wise I was really pleasantly surprised by Helsinki. So the only direct flight I could get from Seattle to that part of Europe was going through Helsinki, which I had never planned. I hadn't really planned on going to Finland when, I planned this trip so I added on time to do that and it was like two things when it was a nice town.
Justin:Like you know, it's not a big, big city, it's not a Paris or a London rate, so it doesn't have that feel, but I thought it was just very pleasant and like the food is good, and I was there in June so they had all kinds of pride flags and all kinds of Ukraine flags up and I was just like here are people living, you know, very close to Russia and just kind of had a big middle finger towards, you know, putin, and I was like I'm here for this, I'm here for these folks, so that was really nice.
Shawn:I've heard a lot of good things about Helsinki. Any favorite books this year?
Justin:So I yeah, I mean I've been doing a lot of reading. I have been, you know, taking more time to like sit down at the end of the night and read and just kind of using that as the escape partly or not escape at the end of the night, partly because you know, shonda, your point about like the attention span thing. Like I have noticed that with myself as well of it's 10 minutes and I'm ready to go do something else, and so I've been trying to train myself a little bit back into the you can sit for an hour and read and it's okay.
Justin:So I've read a lot of history. I've read a lot of you know. I read this book to make men free, which was about their Republican party and the history of their Republican party, and that was fascinating to watch that history go from you know Lincoln onwards. You know a lot of others books about like just kind of trying to make get outside of the realm of the capitalist society we live in and trying to be more present in my life and you know that type of thing.
Justin:And then but the book that's like, really like, did me in this year that like I was a wreck reading it and afterwards, but in kind of a very weird like destroyed and hopeful way and that was Unthinkable by Jamie Raskin, who's the congressman from Maryland, and if you remember his son passed away from suicide a few days before the January 6th insurrection.
Justin:And so in this book he writes about both being at the Capitol during the siege and then also about, like, his son's death and dealing with that. And it was one of those where, like, I thought it was well written, but it was more the way he wrote about his son, tommy, and like the kind of almost just like a love letter to his son, but also to, you know, anyone who suffered from mental illness, whether they've suffered, they've had a family member suffer it just I don't know, there was something about it that was both heartbreaking and hope-giving. I just even now it just stirs so many emotions in me. And you know, there's a part about the Capitol which is almost like the backstory to this, like the backdrop to this other story, and it was that other story that just stuck out, and so yeah, that was one of my favorite.
Justin:I know it was written. I think two years ago now, right but well, a year ago, two years ago, but it was just. It was one I read and listened to. I both read it and listened to it because it was so like powerful.
Justin:So yeah, that was one, and I'm currently reading this book called Trailed, which is about two murders in the Shenandoah in the 90s, and I love to camp and I love to be out on the trails, and so I'm reading it and I'm having this like oh my God, I'm never, camping again. And also like I can't wait to get out to camp. It's such a weird experience, but it's also very good. I'm going to finish that before the end of the year, for sure.
Shawn:Is it?
Justin:like a fiction or nonfiction. It's nonfiction. It is by Catherine Miles. It's one woman's quest to solve the Shenandoah murders and it is like that true crime. But also the two women that were murdered, lolly and Julie, were lesbians and it was May of 96. And they're in the Shenandoah National Park, which when I lived out East like I'd go to a couple times a year to hike and I don't know.
Justin:So there's just all of these connections and just very interesting, but it's so well written and it also is, I know, the first time I go back out and I attempt, like the next time I go out camping, I'm going to like not sleep.
Shawn:But I'm not going to just from here. I love a good true crime and I'm so drawn to them, but I'm always like 15 pages in it and I'm like well, I'm not fucking sleeping ever again. Right, right, right.
Justin:Yeah, Well, this one. What's funny is I actually tried to start reading this in September and I took it. I just grabbed out my bookshelf as I went on a camping trip and, like I opened the first page and I'm like, nope, that's not happening tonight. So what about you? What books did you enjoy this year?
Shawn:I read a book called Lincoln on the Verge and I did not know this, and it actually is just a good reminder that what we know about American history and then I guess, by extension, what is American history is just whatever dominant voices decide to tell us. I'll preface this by saying I've become more and more interested in the lost history of the United States. So Lincoln on the Verge is essentially like the 13 days between Lincoln leaving from Illinois and then arriving in DC to assume the presidency. I did not know that there was an attempt by the Southern states to interrupt the electoral college count. They had guards at the Capitol, they had locked down the Capitol and people were outside screaming that's Rembrandt of January 6th. And then the entire way by rail from Illinois to the Capitol, they were thwarting assassination attempts from Southern agents on Lincoln the whole way.
Shawn:I didn't know that there was so much of it. That was actually just reminiscent of what we went through in 2020. And it's like this weird dichotomy of feelings I had One is oh God, we're doing it again, but the other was OK, but we survived it.
Shawn:Right so maybe we will this time too.
Justin:Right, Like there's a hope piece there right.
Shawn:But there also, is that the dread of how many? People are going to be hurt until we survive it.
Shawn:Yeah, but I think my favorite book that I read this year was a book called Boy with the Bullhorn by Ron Goldberg. He was one of the founding members of Act Up the AIDS activism. They were much more militant than traditional for your activism at the time, yeah. So they took protest into the street. They adopted the Silence equals Death logo. Anyway, he was kind of their chief slogan here, so he came up with their slogans.
Shawn:He wrote this I don't know how to characterize it. It's both an incredibly well researched historical account of Act Up and AIDS activism and it's also a memoir. It's hard to do that effectively, do something that's objectively historical, that is also weaving in like a personal story. Yeah, rhonda's such a good job of it, and it's another reminder to me that there are so many movements and so many people that have shaped this country and have done courageous things in times when and in situations when large swaths of the country or the world were just absolutely against them, and they did it anyway and shaped the trajectory of the rest of our lives.
Shawn:And it's just. I consider these people. I'm talking about queer rights and AIDS activism, but it made me think about, like, civil rights and women's lib and Indigenous folks rights, and it just would come back to the stories that get lost. There are so many founding parents to movements that contribute to the history of our country that are just so overlooked and I just feel, at this point in my life, committed to finding those stories and finding those people, because I think they're much more inspiring in our contemporary world than some of the people we've been told are heroes and maybe they are the founding quote unquote fathers of the United States.
Shawn:I think they were doing their best to create a good government and to find compromise, you know, and I want to give them their due for that, but I just don't think they're the moment right now for me.
Justin:Yeah, you know, s, that's really interesting because I mean, I am in that same space because I have so many books like biographies of folks that are the famous folks right, like the ones that you know.
Justin:Quote unquote made the country or made the institutions that we use to govern our society or we don't use to govern our society, and I'm glad I did because it gave me a perspective. But I'm at the same boat where I'm like I want to hear the stories of the folks that we've that we overlook in our regular kind of teaching of history, and the people that are truly the activists and the folks on the front line that are figuring this out and the act of peace. That just reminds me of a story I heard when I first started working in the government and like the storming of the NIH quote unquote storming of the NIH campus, and you know just how like, how powerful that was, how needed it was, and also just how sad it was that it was needed, right, Like that you think about that and other folks when they're protesting and things like that. It's like if so much bravery goes into that. But also, like, here are folks that are just trying to survive, right, that are just trying to live in a government that just was ignoring them.
Justin:And I think that's one of the things you know when folks talk about the better nature of our people, or the Americans will always do something, you know, do everything else before they do the right thing. It's the people that come out in the streets to protest for equality, for equity, for humanity that, I think, really drive all of that. So yeah, I'm just been. I was just looking at my bookshelf as we were talking and thinking about all the books that I have that I need to read, that are not the you know.
Justin:Biography of the quote. Unquote great man?
Shawn:I think well, one there's. We've heard the story of you know the founding I always say parents, but the founding fathers so much and we've read all the biographies or heard the stories about. You know the quote unquote great leaders, and there's something, I think there's a thread that is shared among them that we consider to be valor or courage or bravery or strength, et cetera, and I think those are all hopeful and those are all uplifting. But what draws me to people like Ron Goldberg and civil rights leaders and women's lib leaders is is that they're leading it not because they have this character per se or this trait or this, this chromosome. They're leading it because their body is on the line, you know, like they have no other choice and like that is much more interesting to me in bringing out or activating that gene in people.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree and there's something you know, it's even I mean the thing now that, like when I do read, because I've read the, the, the Edmund Morris, you know, trilogy on Teddy Roosevelt and you know it was a very interesting read but like all of these books now I.
Justin:what I find interesting on the quote unquote great leaders is I learned more when you when I learn about their faults right, like the things that they actually, like you know, when they screwed up, like, like when they made mistakes, like that, to me, is more is on that side more interesting than you're right, like the folks that you know, they're, yeah, their, their lives are on the line, and so they, they, you know, go and they do. I mean, this is the thing that I do think still makes this country great as they go and they protest their grievances, right, they, they, they, you know, take to the picket line or, you know, write their senator or go, you know, get handcuffed to.
Justin:you know the desk or whatever it is, and because they don't have any other option and it's the non. You know, the nonviolent piece of that that I think is is just profound, and because normally, you know, because that nonviolent piece is met with violence from the state, exactly, yeah, you know, it's those are the real heroes.
Shawn:Yeah, when the consequence is not losing an election, which okay, sure People like Liz Cheney you know it's very heroic act. I guess what she's doing right, yeah, but like losing an election and and holding that up as being a great sacrifice is very different than chaining yourself, like you said, to a counter or a table or potentially losing your life. Those are just very different motivators.
Justin:Right, I agree, okay, and I don't think it's anything. I mean, I think you're right, it's not to disparage, you know one person's sacrifice over another, but there, but there is a difference, and I think the the piece of it is like to respect. There's a respect there that runs through all of that thread, though, right.
Justin:And that is the part that I think we're really getting in a weird spot here. But like the pieces that I remember, you know from my early childhood, growing up, and like hearing the history lessons and talking to my parents and my grandparents, and you know it really is that like in America you can do anything you want and you should be treated as as you should be treated as a human being, and you should be treated by the way that you behave, right, the way your your character, not because of anything else. And that piece like still runs strong for me.
Justin:That that's what we should be all working together, right, and so I so I think there are places where you have, um, you know, you have folks that do stand up to that type of oppression of and and they're just, it's heroic, and you know, you can see that, and what's happening here today with some of the the major battles For example, the woman from Texas right who is taking on a system because if she has a real medical issue and I'm sure that's not what she wants to she doesn't want to be dealing with. You know, all of this. She wants to be able to take care of her family and herself, and you know, but she's standing up there saying this is a problem and you, you know, you guys, you know, really need to understand what it is that you're doing when you make these laws. That, yeah, anyway, happy stuff we're supposed to be talking about happy.
Shawn:I think there is something hopeful in this, though, because I do think we, even when we can't verbalize it or intellectualize it, I think we respond differently to situations like I think her name is Kate Cox Kate Cox, yes, in Texas. Yeah, she's doing nothing in pursuit of self-interest, her body is on the line and so she has to do this, right, right, and I think that resonates different with people. Then calculated political moves or Actions that are taken that people maybe didn't want to, but they feel like they have to, and then the ramifications are somewhat limited, right, yeah? Yeah, I think it just resonates differently, and so I'm hopeful that, given the example you gave, that you know these types of things as they happen and people see what this does when people's bodies are on the lines, that means something.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, I do too, and and maybe we can just all get off the. You know from the the certainty of being right about our position and said realize that we're still talking about human beings and and and you know community members and Family, and you know just when you stick to your position is the right thing. You forget that there are people out there All right okay, all right. Well, s, what is something that you know has in 2023, that was Happened to you, that was really profound or really meaningful?
Shawn:so one of the Places that I went, so I like I said I did that for country trip this year to Europe and one of the countries was Austria and I took a day trip, kind of on a whim I hadn't planned for it and went to Mount housing concentration camp. Oh, and I was actually really nervous to do it because I just did not know what to expect. You know, I've always been fascinated by World War two and the rise of fascism, so I've read a lot of books, I've seen a lot of documentaries, but there was just something different to be there, yeah, and I didn't know what to expect and and I was by myself. I actually think that ended up being for the better, because I could spend much more time just processing what I was seeing and feeling. But when we get there, the first thing they do is on the organized tour. It's just a small tour. They walk you around the perimeter and Mount housing is like set on top of a hill and there's valleys all around it and there's farmhouses. It's so beautiful.
Shawn:I was just like standing the edge of, like a cliff. I was looking out. I think I was overwhelmed by how bucolic it was. It was so dissonant, like what was happening there, and then, just surrounded by all this beauty, you really have to be in these spaces to get a sense of like how small these rooms are with hundreds of people and how thin the walls are, and it was just really overwhelming. But one thing that was really Lovely was that after it was liberated, a whole bunch of countries and groups put up special monuments and plaques on the walls on the inside of Mount housing. It took like 40 years but Finally the whoever was administering Mount housing allowed a queer group To put up a monument or a plaque that recognized gay prisoners that had been there and had died and recognized them as an oppressed group that had been targeted by the Nazis. It was. It was very profound experience. I'm glad I did it.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, like it like really important to see that and to be there and to have all of that, the feelings and everything, and it's tough right, yeah, and it was also the first time I'm embarrassed to say this at my age, but because I was always like how does this happen?
Shawn:How does everyone in a country just turn on a group of people? It was the first time being inside that I realized, though, these are prisons. They passed laws that made people illegal. Germans could justify this by saying well, these are criminals. Right? Gay people are engaging in criminal acts. That's why they're going right, it's it.
Justin:You know, it starts with this action as a criminal act, and then it becomes the people doing this action are the criminals, and then it becomes the people are the criminals and and they are forced, uh and, and a lot of it's hidden from regular folks, right? I mean, there's a story I remember hearing and I can't remember, so this may not be factual, but whatever but of one of the generals when they liberated one of the concentration camps.
Justin:Like bringing the mayor of the town and like the city council of the town nearby and like showing them and saying this was happening right here, you know, like just the blindness that we sometimes, you know, if there's stuff happening right in front of us and we just turn, turn away from it, right.
Shawn:While I was there, I was thinking about Abortion in the states and I was thinking about the stuff that's happening to trans folks and queer folks in the country.
Justin:It's really scary. It's scary. Well, that's anytime you, you, anytime you put somebody into the other category, right, and and you just say, well, there's something different, there's something not, they're not like me or they. You know, I wouldn't do that or I would never be in the experience to have to. You know, make that choice, as as the more you wall yourself out from people, the easier it is to Forget that they're people.
Shawn:Our tour guide made this comment. He was talking about this. Like the other ring of people, like Romanian gypsies were put into concentration camps. They often were fed last and if there was no food, they didn't get fed right. And the reason they had those rules was because there's the stereotype that gypsies are thieves and sneaky, so they would be fed last. And then, because they were fed last and sometimes didn't get any food, then, yes, they would sometimes sneak food or steal food where they could because they weren't getting fed. And then when they'd get caught, see the gypsies that are all sneaky and thieves, right. That is the kind of rhetoric we're engaged in, not just in the United States, but we're seeing this rise of this kind of xenophobic, nationalist rhetoric globally and it's just chilling.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, no, it is, you're exactly right.
Shawn:But anyway what is? Your profound experience.
Justin:Oh, so mine is definitely not as a worldwide insight as yours, but it also happened in Europe. It was actually when I went to Oslo, so I'd been to Oslo before and I was there in the winter of 2016. And, like I said, I have a college friend from there, and so we met for dinner. The night I got into Oslo, we met for dinner. We were hanging out and I was just in a grumpy mood and I didn't know if it was because I had been trying.
Shawn:I know that, Justin oh come on now.
Justin:That happens very rarely, dear listeners. I'm always very sorry, but I just I had this and she was like well, we're going to hang out tomorrow. And I said, and I just told her, I'm like I need a little bit of time. I don't know what's going on, but I just I need a little bit of time. So we finished dinner and we told our meetup with her the next night and we'd hang out, and so the next morning I didn't really know what I was doing.
Justin:But the next morning I got up and I went to the park outside of the palace and I had myself a good croninine at like 7 AM in the morning and it was like a Sunday, I think, maybe a Saturday. I felt so bad for all the people out jogging like seeing this like middle-aged American man and like just sitting on a bench crying. But I realized like there was something about it that I had the last time I was out.
Shawn:It was in Oslo.
Justin:I was with my ex and I hadn't had the like, like with everything, with the pandemic. When we split up with moving all of that, there was just something hanging out that I didn't know about until I saw Oslo. So I had myself a good cry and it was very like not like you know, I want to go back, or anything like that. It was just like a release of that emotion. And then I got myself on one of the little fairies that takes you out to the islands and the fjord.
Justin:And I went to the beach and I went skinny dipping in the Oslo harbor area and it was like a wash, like washing everything from the past away type of thing, and it was like.
Justin:I don't know there was just something about it that, like my, it was fascinating about the whole thing because I hadn't really planned on going to Oslo again because I had seen it. But then my friend was like no, if you're going to be in Norway, like at least one night, and then I, just because of timing and the train schedule and all that, I decided to stay, you know, two nights, which meant I got a full day in Oslo. And it was kind of the universe telling me, like you have one more thing you got to do here, I don't know. So it was one of those.
Justin:I just it was really kind of nice because it was it was like okay, that really amazing part of my life is now over, which means I can, you know, focus on the next really amazing part of my life.
Shawn:One of the great things that I've learned I don't know if it's great one of the things that I've learned that I've really appreciated is something you touched on, which is when I learned that crying doesn't mean that you miss something or want something back.
Justin:Yes, and then the whole idea of like the rules that we have, that we've set up, as you know, the I mean you know the sex and the city rules, right when it's like you know, you date somebody for so long. You have this much time to get over them right, Like that all of that is just made up stuff.
Justin:You grieve even the word grieve in it, right, but like you grieve, you heal in a very different way, and it's okay, and like it just I don't know. I will say, though, that there was a point where I was like. I was like if somebody was filming this like this is the start of like a really bad. Hallmark movie especially with the runners going by it Like that. That just I but, I, had no shame.
Justin:I was like, okay, I'm going to cry here, that's fine. But yeah, it was really nice. It was, it was nice, it's nice.
Shawn:All right, justin, all right. What's something that you're looking forward to in 2024?
Justin:Something I'm looking forward to in 2024. Well, I will be turning 45, which. I'm I'm excited about turning 45. I'm excited, you know, as I mentioned, I think, on the last time we talked, or three times ago, whatever it was, you know I was depressed and you know had suicidal tendencies and you know, late teens, early twenties, and so you know, for me it's like just one of those like wow, I made it this far Like this is pretty cool and so just to be able to, like, hang out with my friends and, you know, just enjoy being in the Pacific Northwest and going camping, even though I will be not sleeping at all given the books I read.
Justin:Yeah, but just that, that's. I'm looking forward to that, and then I am looking forward to it looks like we may be taking a trip to the Philippines this spring, so that will be. That will be fun. I'm, if it happens. I'm really looking forward to that too. What about you?
Shawn:We haven't been to New Zealand since 2019 and we've both been missing it quite a bit. So we're thinking about taking you know extended trip later in the year to like Australia and New Zealand. So definitely looking forward to that, and it'll come right after the election, which I'm also hopeful is a democracy saving election.
Justin:So Well, so this New Zealand Australia thing you gotta let me know what's going on there, because you know I haven't been back to Oz since 2011 and I was supposed to go in 2021, but you know the pandemic thing. So I may just have to like crash your guys' trip.
Shawn:Well, we'd be happy to have you. Maybe the chicks will be down there too.
Justin:Well, let's see, they were there this year. I mean, maybe they'll do another tour down there. That would be amazing.
Shawn:We can all shave our balls and go.
Justin:We can all shave our balls. Yes, that'll be the next rendition of the podcast.
Shawn:Check in next year. Okay, justin, merry Christmas, happy new year. We'll do it again next year, all right.
Justin:Well, thank you, s. Always a pleasure. Merry Christmas and happy new year, and I hope 2024 is great for you.
Shawn:As we were recording, I received another message from Santa Claus, a Christmas wish.
Shawn:It reads Merry Christmas one and all from the North Pole to your door. May your holidays be merry, bright and full of magic evermore and, most importantly, may your holidays be filled with the people you love most, even if they do drive you as crazy as a sugar-hyped elf on Christmas Eve. A little corny Santa, but thank you back at ya and thank you, listeners, for joining us for this special holiday episode and every episode that you've listened to and shared and liked and commented on. It's been an honor to be part of your lives this past year. I am truly grateful that you've welcomed Deep Dive into your homes and into your lives. And we have one more for you this year. Check back next week, new Year's Eve, deep Dive is doing our second annual State of the Union, when I'll be joined by some more friends of the pod as we look back on the past year and discuss progress we've made or not and how next year election year in the United States might unfold. In the meantime, from our house to yours, happy holidays everybody.