Deep Dive with Shawn C. Fettig

A Few of Our Favorite Things 2024 (And a Special Message from the North Pole)

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The second annual Few of Our Favorite Things episode has arrived! Friend of the Pod Justin Hentges returns, and we share personal stories and reflections on our cherished books, movies, music, and experiences from the past year. We aren't just highlighting new releases, but the gems that have brought us joy and comfort regardless of their release date. We also bring you a heartwarming Christmas story with Santa and magical snow globes, spreading hope and resilience to those feeling vulnerable in this uncertain times.

From Ronan Farrow's gripping "Catch and Kill" to Emmanuel Carrère's poignant "V13: Chronicle of a Trial," we discuss the year's most impactful books that have left us contemplating the dark corners of media and politics. We also explore the intriguing connections between business, government, and personal stories through the insightful narratives in Naomi Oreskes and Eric Conway's "The Big Myth" and Viola Davis's powerful autobiography "Finding Me." And, we curl up with our favorite TV series like Rowan Atkinson's "Maigret" and the heartfelt "Heartstopper." These stories serve as a reminder of the importance of diverse perspectives in enriching our understanding of the world.

Our conversation also takes some unexpected turns as we find joy in the children in our lives, and the sense of community that emerges during uncertain times. We reflect on the cultural impact across generations and the significance of empathy and compassion. As the holiday season approaches, we send you a heartfelt Happy Holidays!

Related:
Counterpoint Podcast

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Shawn:

How many glasses of wine have you had, Shawn? I don't count in glasses, Justin Right.

Justin:

That is also a very middle-aged thing. I'm the same way. It's one glass. If it's a bottle, right yeah. Or a box, whatever, Whatever. Well, if you're having one box of wine a night, we should probably chat a little bit about that.

Shawn:

Yeah, agreed. No, not that bad yet. Yes, welcome to Deep Dive with me, s C Fettig, and happy holidays. We're deep in the holiday season and that means that we here at Deep Dive are taking a break for one episode from the shitshow that is the world, and instead, today we're bringing you our second annual Favorite Things of the Year episode, and to help me with that is friend of the pod and pretty much lifelong friend of mine, justin Hentges. We'll talk about some of our favorite books, movies, music experiences, etc. From the past year. But since we're real people with real lives, we can't constantly be keeping up with the newest, best and shiniest. The rules for our favorites of the year are not limited to things produced, created or released this year, just that we experienced them this past year. But before we go there, I want to acknowledge that in many ways it's been a tough year. Our politics seem off the rails, completely broken. The outcome of the election is disappointing for many of you, perhaps even existential. The state of the world is precarious and uncertain. It's tough, and I've been thinking about how to send an uplifting message to y'all and ultimately realized that at this time of year, there may be a better messenger than me to shine a little light. So I asked some North Pole elves to send me a Christmas message of hope and resilience that could lift us all up, but especially some of the most vulnerable among us that might feel particularly endangered and targeted right now. And so here's what they sent me.

Shawn:

It was a quiet Christmas Eve in the North Pole, but Santa was restless. As he reviewed his list for the hundredth time, a soft glow appeared on his ancient desk. It was the golden snowflake, a magical signal from the world below alerting him that the season's spirit was dimming in many hearts. Santa donned his coat and went straight to his workshop where the elves were just wrapping up the last presents. We've got work to do, my friends, he announced his voice warm but determined. This year, we need to deliver more than gifts. We need to deliver hope. Using the magical dust of cheer, santa and the elves crafted enchanted snow globes. Each globe captured a moment of magic a mother hugging her child, friends laughing over cocoa. A stranger lending a hand to someone in need. Santa infused each one with his most powerful spell, a tailored message straight to the heart.

Shawn:

That night, in a small apartment, anna and her family gathered in silence around a tiny Christmas tree. As immigrants, they lived in fear every day, unsure if they'd be forced to leave the home they had built. Suddenly, a glittering snow globe appeared on their kitchen table. Tentatively, anna shook it. A gentle, soothing voice spoke you are stronger than you know. This land is better because of you, and love will protect your dreams. As the family held each other close, the globe glowed, filling the room with warmth and courage.

Shawn:

Miles, a trans boy, had spent weeks hiding in his room, weighed down by cruel taunts and hateful words from politicians and bullies alike. When he discovered the glowing globe on his nightstand, he gave it a shake. Santa's voice echoed softly you are perfect as you are. The world needs your light, miles. Be brave, you're not alone. For the first time in days, miles smiled as a shimmering aura surrounded him, a shield of magic that made him feel safe and seen and valuable.

Shawn:

And in a small town in Minnesota, kayla stared at her college acceptance letter to Florida State. It was everything she had dreamed of, but fear gripped her. What if the state wasn't safe for her anymore? The future felt dark and uncertain. Then she noticed a snow globe on her bookshelf. As she turned it, the tiny figures danced and Santa's voice spoke. Your dreams matter, kayla. Go boldly where you feel safest. You'll find allies and kindness there. Kayla felt her resolve return, her heart swelling with the courage to step forward.

Shawn:

From bustling cities to snowy countrysides, people found their globes and heard Santa's words. The world may feel heavy, but joy, kindness and love are still here. You are part of the magic, regardless of what others might tell you and how they might treat you. And as laughter and gratitude and calm and peace filled the air, the golden snowflake glowed brighter than ever, reminding Santa that even the smallest sparks of cheer and kindness can light up the darkest of nights, and that's something we would all do well to remember this holiday season and moving forward. And so we, here now at Deep Dive, gift you our own snow globe of our favorite things of 2024.

Shawn:

So make some hot chocolate, light a fire legally, round up some friends, some family, grab a blanket, curl up and get some inspiration for things to do, listen to, read or watch in your next year. Alright, if you liked this episode or any episode, please give it a like, share and follow on your favorite podcast platform and or subscribe to the podcast on YouTube. And, as always, if you have any thoughts, questions or comments, or want to let us know about some of your favorite things of the year, please feel free to email me at deepdivewithshawn at gmailcom. Let's do a deep dive, emailcom. Let's do a deep dive. Hey Justin, how are you? Hey Shawn, I'm well. How are you doing?

Justin:

I'm well as well. Happy holidays. Happy holidays, it's been a year. It has been a year. That is correct. Are you excited for the holiday?

Shawn:

Shawn, it's funny you ask that because I feel like this is a red flag. You may regret asking this. Earlier today somebody asked me because we're going to Palm Springs later this week for I think I'm going to say a well-needed vacation. But one of my friends was like are you excited? And my response was and I didn't think twice about it was I don't get excited about anything these days. And after I sent it I was like oh, that's kind of dark.

Justin:

That is all dark, but but you know what, it's good to be truthful and, you know, maybe we can find something that has been exciting for you or will be exciting for you as we chat.

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah, and to be clear, it's not that I mean any specific thing, Right, you know, it's just. I know I'm a happy person, I have joy in my life. I just don't think I get excited. I hear that word and I think children or like myself when I was 20 and I think I was overly excitable you would know was I was I?

Justin:

I was just thinking back to, if you were overly excitable when we were young, what the hell was.

Shawn:

I oh no, no, you were very. Yes, this is not news to you, right?

Justin:

No, not at all. I can't even think of a word to describe me after that.

Shawn:

It's one of the reasons I enjoyed hanging out with you, because I always got from people like, oh my God, you're always over the top and I was like have you met Justin?

Justin:

Perfect. Oh, as I'm sitting here drinking tea out of uh, once a princess, always a princess mug from, you know, disney world.

Shawn:

I yes, I may be a little over the top, I'm having wine, so we are on different planes right now.

Justin:

Well, I've been. I've been fighting a cold, you know, so I I'm trying to take it easily today understood, but let's talk about some of our favorite things over the last 365 days.

Shawn:

All right, let's do it. Where do we start? Did you take trips?

Justin:

I did. I took a lot of trips this year.

Shawn:

Okay, well, tell me your favorite one then.

Justin:

Oh well, my favorite one was, oh geez. Actually, for different, I had a number of trips, a lot of work trips, but uh, two, two personal trips that were really uh great. One was um to hawaii with my partner and um. We got to go to the big island, which was amazing, and then got to see my family, who we all haven't seen each other for a couple years, so it was nice to all get together. And then in the summer I got to go to Sweden and Iceland for a few days to see the Bruce Springsteen concert in Stockholm. A friend of mine texted me and said hey, do you want to go to Stockholm to see Bruce? And I said yes and then flew over there for a few days and it was just absolutely amazing. How was Bruce? How was Bruce Bruce is.

Justin:

If I had one tenth of his energy at my age now, I would be so happy. Like it is, it is amazing. He and the entire group are just fantastic. The energy in the crowd is just amazing. The energy from the stage is amazing. He and the entire group are just fantastic. The energy in the crowd is just amazing. The energy from the stage is amazing and there's a it's. It's especially, I think, cool to see a concert like that outside of the United States, because you know you have so many different people that are going and just being, you know, wrapped up in that and, um, everybody's friendly and nice and fun. And you know you have spanish people dancing, you have irish people, you have the swedish, you have the weird americans that go over there. Right, it's just, it's a lot of fun. There's a whole culture I have discovered to folks that travel around to follow Bruce on his tour and it's a, it's a pretty neat place.

Shawn:

So I know that you do this, I know that you've traveled to other countries to see, specifically to see concerts or shows, and when I was in Dublin a couple of years ago, I had that in the back of my mind. I was by myself, I was there for a week and I it escapes me who was playing there, but there was someone why can't I think of her name that I really wanted to see, and so I actually got a ticket and I was like I'm gonna do what Justin does WWJD, what would Justin do? And I wrestled with it the entire like week prior to the concert and then I bailed. I didn't go, I don't even. I'm like I'm too old to give a shit. But for some reason I was like no, I don't know, I don't know the city, I don't you know, I don't know, I don't know.

Justin:

Yeah.

Shawn:

Yeah.

Justin:

It's, it's, I mean I, you know I, I've gone to concerts no-transcript. What about you? You did traveling this year. Where are all of you gone?

Shawn:

Yeah, we did go to a few places and, honestly, the place that I so I went to I did like the South of France on the Riviera, and Berlin. That was a trip that I did. And then together we went to Venice earlier in the year and I loved Venice. I didn't expect to like it, but I did. We went in March. Have you been there?

Justin:

Yes, yeah, I was there a number of years ago and we were there in march, march as well. It was beautiful I didn't.

Shawn:

First of all, I didn't know what to expect, to be completely honest, uh, but all I had ever heard from people is it's overrun, and I don't like crowds. I was, I was apprehensive, but, uh, it wasn't that busy. It took me a few days to actually realize there's no roads in Venice. The roads are essentially the canals Right, and which is cool because ambulances, police, all the products that they're selling are coming in and out of those canals.

Shawn:

But it was something was like as I was walking around, I was like there was something that I couldn't put my finger on and then one day it just hit me. I was like there's no roads here, you know, and there's all these back alleys, and there were plenty of times I was walking alone in an alley. It just there wasn't, it wasn't overrun with people. I mean, in the main hub it was super busy, but I just thought it was, uh, it felt like a world unto its own, really, and so it was very charming and I would would go back in a heartbeat, but I'm sure it's just like a restaurant.

Justin:

Never go back a second time if you like something I don't know if I've ever heard that thing about a restaurant never go back a second. But yeah, no, well, venice, especially when you're not if I I've heard it's like you're either in the the height of the tourist season in summer. It is ridiculous. But yeah, my experience was very similar, like getting done with dinner and then being walking through these you know streets and there's nobody around, and it was very otherworldly.

Shawn:

And like it's, it's uncommon. You know, I've been lucky enough, or fortunate enough, to travel quite a bit in my life. Yes, to the point where now, when I go someplace, I'm like oh yeah, that felt like Florida, Vallarta, or that felt like Auckland, which I think is really cynical place to get, but Venice was a place that surprised me. It just I. There was no corollary to it.

Justin:

Yeah, yeah, I agree, and it's beautiful, yeah. So when you're on these travels, what have you been reading?

Shawn:

So I read a lot. I would hope so.

Justin:

I would hope so, with your podcast, you would read the books.

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah, there's a trick to that, just an FYI, but that's for another day. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I kind of love this about myself that I read like four or five books at a time and part of it is just overzealous. I'm just like so excited about the next book. See, there's something I get excited about. All right, there you go, but part of it is. I also need I don't have the attention span anymore to just stick with one thing all the way through all the time, so I'm fascinated if I do so. There's two books that I read this year, because of course, there's not just one that I could not put down and read through in a couple of days. The first was it didn't come out this year. It came out maybe six, seven years ago, but I don't know if you've read it Catch and Kill by Ronan Farrow. I have not read that.

Justin:

So so you know what it's about. It's hitting something in my brain saying you know what this is about, but for the life of me I cannot actually think about it.

Shawn:

So I mean, at its heart it's really kind of a blow-by-blow unraveling of Harvey Weinstein and uncovering of what was going on. But it pulls in the Me Too movement and Donald Trump shows up quite a bit. But it's uh, it was not an easy read. So one of my friends read this right when it came out and she had told me at the time like this is an unbelievable book and I was like, yeah, it's on my list, right. And then as I was reading it, I was telling her like this book is un-fucking-believable. And she's like I know, and it's because I had literally you know you get the broad strokes of the Me Too movement. It's horrific.

Shawn:

But when you read this book and you see just the depths of depravity that some of these people will go to and it's not just people, it's the industry, it's media and the and the news industry and whatever Trump is in, I don't know, real estate, these industries and the people that have power and money, not only what they can get away with, but what they do get away with is just like the way that they treat people. You know we can stick with, like Harvey Weininstein, but the things that happen and the things that they make happen. If that, if one of those happened in my life, it would be something I would never forget and I would talk about right and these are things that they do on a regular basis, on a daily basis. It's just, I had no idea, yeah, how horrific it is.

Justin:

So that's one book and then, well, yeah, the christmas episode took a real turn there, didn't it?

Shawn:

Well, I mean, I don't know that it's going to get much better, but I would say the best book I read this year was called V13 Chronicle of a Trial by Emmanuel Correre. Yeah, again, this is dark. So do you remember, in 2015, the terrorist attacks in Paris, at the Bataclan Theater and at those cafes, all on the same night, and the bombing at that soccer stadium? Yes, so this guy, emmanuel, is a reporter who went to the trial and he writes a book that's essentially a chronicle of the trial. By telling the story of the trial, he peppers it with a lot of context as to the history of some of the victims and the history of the perpetrators and the history of Islam and the history of French legal system.

Shawn:

The way he does it is so eloquent and beautiful and heart-rending and empathetic and it seems super heavy. I mean it is, but he writes it in like vignettes that you could read one in like three minutes. And I wonder now, even as I'm saying it out loud, if he did that deliberately, knowing the like weight of the content and the weight of the topic, that you couldn't ingest it too much of it at one time, for, as horrific as it is and it I mean, it's just heart-rending reading some of this stuff from all sides, but, um, it's so beautiful and like it actually does remind me of the humanity that we have that I sometimes lose sight of. Yeah, and for that reason I give this a five-star review.

Justin:

Oh, we're doing stars now okay, yeah, sure.

Shawn:

So, keeping that in mind, what are you?

Justin:

reading.

Justin:

So one book that I read recently, but I think it came out a couple of years ago as well was by Naomi Orsecas and Eric Conway I hope I said their names right which is the big myth, how American business taught us to loathe government and love the free market, and that was a very interesting kind of exploration of just different ways that you know the business has influenced the way we think about business versus government right, and we think about you know you saw this in many of our discussions over the last you know year about we need to run government like a business, we need to be more efficient, we need to do, you know, this and that, and so this kind of explains that history throughout many, many, many decades, and it's fascinating to me to read that and then to think about how ingrained that has been, you know, even for somebody like me who you know I work in the public sector and yet I still have those thoughts, and so that was a fascinating kind of um exploration of that and how that you know the madison avenue, you know marketing piece can play into amongst you know other more nefarious things that that some of our folks did beforehand, um, so that was interesting and kind of a downer at the same time.

Justin:

We also wrote a book about climate change and you know the business world's undercutting of the science of climate change and undercutting of those you know, institutions or those scientists. So it was a really good book. But also, you know, I didn't walk away feeling like woohoo, everything's gonna be happy. But the other one that I read, um and I actually did it on audible um which it's the uh, Viola Davis's autobiography finding me, which was just a really powerful, powerful book, the way that she wrote it, the way that she read it, her her own life story was just very I keep saying, powerful, but it was just very powerful.

Justin:

And the thing in the end, like you know, she's, she's standing very proud as who she is and as, as I was reading it, you know obviously having a very different lived experience than she has had.

Justin:

Reading it, you know, obviously having a very different lived experience than she has had it.

Justin:

Also, the way that she wrote it, you could see how all of these things that have happened, how all of the you know, the choices that either were made for her, that she made and and the same with how choices are made for us, or the choices we make, how they lead us to some place and when you're there, you just have, you have to stand there and be like this is who I am and this is this is. You know, this is who I am, and so that, really that stuck with me because it was just such a good story even though it was, you know, it's true, but the way that she told it was a good story and it kind of brought you in to it, even the hard pieces that she talked about but you left feeling like powerful, like yeah, we all have our stories and we all have gone through some stuff and we all get to, you know, we get to stand in in our truths, and so that was very, that was a great book.

Shawn:

You know what I want to ask, because I'm always fascinated how we get to the books we get to, uh. So, like you're talking about this and I'm thinking how did I not hear about this? How did you find this book?

Justin:

you know what I would. I think I think I was just so. I, I walk my dog at 5 am in the morning and I usually listen to an audible or some or a book on tape for you know, the old folks that are listening, remember tapes, right, but, uh, you can cut that part out, right? Okay, um, but I, I think I was scrolling through the library just like you know what could be a book to read, and I had heard you know, I've heard clips of hers before in interviews and stuff where she's talked about you know her, you know negotiating for the, for the, the wage that she should be getting or the money she should be getting. You know, given her her skillset and what people that are in that same you know skillset are getting. You know all of that kind of stuff. And so she just seemed like a very interesting person and so I found it and, um, yeah, just just really loved it. I.

Justin:

The other thing I'm trying to do is I'm trying to read books by folks that like, either either as authors or the stories that aren't like me, either either as authors or the stories that aren't like me, like. So I have been reading a lot of like, uh, queer literature, queer, um, you know history. But also thinking like I, and because I need to learn more about that. Right, but I also have been thinking like I need to learn more about the african-american experience, I need to learn more about the hispanic experience. I need to learn more about the Hispanic experience. I need to. And so trying to find authors that are you know and and it doesn't to me, it doesn't matter if it's fiction or nonfiction, right, like you, just get a different experience when you read different authors.

Shawn:

So I'm glad you say this because, for all of the tension and anxiety for whatever reason, whether it be social change or technological technological change or our politics or the economy, whatever that people are experiencing, you know, I think it's easy to get lost in our own kind of experience. But for all of that, what I will say is that we are also living through I would almost call it like a renaissance period of time where, not only because I believe this is true that people from diverse backgrounds, people different than ourselves, have been writing and telling their stories since the dawn of time, but they're getting purchased now in a way that I think they haven't before. And that's not to pat anyone on the back Right, but you know, these stories are much more accessible than they were 20 years ago or 30 years ago, and for that I am really grateful.

Justin:

Yeah, no, I agree, and I think when you read stories from folks that come from different backgrounds or have had different experiences, it's to me, it's there's.

Justin:

it's also about the connection you can make with them right, because you know there may be a part of it where you know you've had such a different experience. But there's one thing that you can say oh well, that's similar to something that I experienced, or that's similar to something my family experienced, and I think it helps bring. It helps make those connections, which is what you know, makes us more human with each other, brings humanity to each other. How do you this is a real question how do you feel about giving away books? Are you a like I read a book, I want to keep it because I'll read it again? Or are you a I read a book, I'm going to lend it to somebody? Do you like to give books away? How do you feel about this?

Justin:

First I want to say it's fascinating that you started this or preface this by saying this is a real question For once on your podcast, Shawn, someone's going to ask a real question.

Shawn:

It's a hard hitting one. This is actually a really good question. I am very much about, like I do fight this thing, this pride of having these books that show, like I, I think, a bench like a depth of, like, experience and knowledge. I do take a certain pride in that, but I also, I think, I'm a giver when it comes to books.

Justin:

What about you? Yeah, I have become more of that. I mean, there are a couple of books that like I you know that means something very special to me that I like have for sentimental reasons right, I want to keep. But for the most part, I had the same thing of like, ooh, I'm going to get these books and they're going to be, you know, in my office, or, you know, show how well read I am. And then it became this is really stupid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, you know, that was a number of years ago. So when I, when I moved out West, you know, one of the things I did is I did the same thing. I took most of my books I left in in DC with, you know, in my, at the office I had there and so folks could use them, um, but now it is I you know, unless it's something that really means something to me, and usually that means I bought it someplace.

Justin:

Like like I have the Lord of the Rings book because I bought it in New Zealand before the movies even came out, right, like so that means something kind of to me like there's a connection there. But otherwise, yeah, I tend to try to give books away once I've read them.

Shawn:

I think there was. I don't know what the psychology is here, but there was at an earlier era in my life just this sense of having gotten these things. And then, as I got older, I'm like I'm never going to fucking reread these. As good as they are, I'm never going to reread them. Right, right, I was thinking the same thing. There are some books that have some type of special sentimental value to me that I would never give away. Yeah, all right, you ready for the next one? Yeah, what was your the favorite movie you watched this past year?

Justin:

Okay. So I have spent days, days thinking about this question, so let me preface it by saying I have, I have not seen Wicked yet. So you know, I'm sure that I will love it, but I haven't seen it yet, so it can't go into the mix. My favorite movie that I watched this year is not did not come out this year, but I rewatched it a couple of times this year and I just it is such an amazing film and that is the first Alien Like with Sigourney Weaver and just her kick ass, like take no shit attitude, like the way that the movie was put together, the scenes when the Tom Skerritt's in the like crawl, like the crawl space areas, and like just the beat, you know, just all of it together is I know what's going to happen in that movie. I know every single time the alien is going to be there and every single time I jump. It's just so well done.

Justin:

So that is one I've watched probably like three or four times this year. Just be like, oh my God, I got to see this again and I hadn't watched it, for, you know, years before that and I just I really like that. I will say you know, know, I was really excited about this, the second beetlejuice coming out and, um, I have re-watched the first beetlejuice number of times since then because I just I was not. I was not real happy with the second one. Really I was not. Did you like it?

Shawn:

so okay, first of all, I want to go back to alien. Did you did so? Alien romulus came out this year. Did you watch that? I have not seen it.

Shawn:

It was exactly what we expected it to be. Yeah, so I'm middle-aged I think I am at that age where I don't get teenagers and this, so let me say it this way, I think this movie probably did very well with teenagers. But as it relates to beetlejuice, yeah, so we, in anticipation of the sequel, watched the first, which I haven't seen or hadn't seen since I was a teenager and posh had never seen, and afterwards I was like that movie was not that good. Posh was like I love that movie, of course, but yeah, now it's a little disappointing.

Shawn:

I don't know, Sequels rarely do live up.

Justin:

I mean it was cute. It's just I think they had too many plot lines, like if they had like three or four different plot lines and it's like if you just had two or three it would have been even better, but at the same time it was fun to see. You know, it was a fun movie to see, all right. So we did movies, you did your movie right.

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah you just did that and it's yours and mine maybe I did put something in this tea, I don't know.

Justin:

All right, uh, music favorite song album singer this year. What do you got?

Shawn:

okay, I feel like I always do too well. Yeah, the first is did you ever hear the band James? No, okay, you really struggled, didn't you? But we should.

Shawn:

We should clarify, though, that you really only listen to 80s, bob um now 75 yes okay, so james was is this band out of the uk who made it really big on like well in in the early 90s they had this album called Laid which played a lot on well now I know it was college radio, but to me it was just radio at the time and this story just gets better and better and better.

Shawn:

So they were very kind of your mellow grunge, right. Okay, anyway, I went to I mentioned dublin a couple years ago and I went to london, uh, also a couple years ago, and we, uh, in our house, do a lot of vinyl shopping and I am well aware of the amount of vinyl that you all have in your house.

Justin:

Yeah, it is. It is intense, but like one of the one of my favorite things all have in your house.

Shawn:

It is intense but, like one of the one of my favorite things to do is to go to other countries and do vinyl shopping like in secondhand vinyl shops, because you never know what you're going to find and they press a lot of stuff from the States there in other countries as well and they have bands there that are much more prolific there than they are here and easier to find. Anyway, james was all over the place and I was like I should really listen to them. So I ended up deep into their back catalog and they've been playing since like 1982. And they're still playing together. So I've been listening to a lot of James this year. And then the other is heavy. I don't mean to keep putting you on the spot.

Shawn:

Have you heard of Grayson Chance? No, okay, so you might know this story though. He was a prodigy piano player singer. When he was nine or ten years old he was on Ellen and she offered him a music deal, like a record deal, and he said no, okay, and he didn't make music from the age age of 11 to like the age of 19 or something. He's released music lately, that is, like the last few years he's released an album a year or whatever, and it's just so unique and it's like a little poppy, a little country, a little rock, a little experimental country, a little rock, a little experimental. I just I think he's just very unique given the music that's being produced these days. So I've been listening to a lot of him. Grace and Chance and James check them out. What about you?

Justin:

Well, now I'm looking at Spotify to look up Grace and Chance.

Shawn:

I don't, yeah, no, I've never heard of him. He's adorable too.

Justin:

Oh, okay. Well, you know that is one of the criteria for listening to a fan they have to be adorable. So, surprisingly, there will be no 80s pop on my list.

Shawn:

Oh, that is surprising Right.

Justin:

I mean, believe me, it's still there in the background, but I do think it's, you know. I want to just give a shout out to our friend Soda Cantor, for his album.

Justin:

Like that was pretty cool to see a friend like say you know, a number of years ago, I'm going to pursue country music and then do it and release an album which is Don't Pray For Me, folks are interested in checking it out. So I'm going to go full on, like you know middle aged gay man here and say that, um, uh, the two thing, two singers and kind of albums or songs that have been on my playlist this year is cowboy carter by beyonce, like I and I know people have their, you know the, I know a number of the music. Uh, critics have issues with the album and all of that, but I just think that the way that she brought so many different genres together in a way that it's fun, it's like what to meet some of country music is supposed to be, which is experimental and just kind of joyous, and I just really liked it. And anytime you can have Beyonce and Miley in the song, I just you know my little gay soul gets happy.

Justin:

And then, for some reason, in the last number of months I've been listening to a lot of Celine Dion, and the song Courage is on almost every day, and you know what? I'm just taking it because she's got a great voice and I love that song and that's's, you know what, helps me get through some stuff. So that's where I am, nothing, you know. I I think that, um, there's a there. I remember an mpr a number of years ago said that if you're out of, if you, if you stop listening to new music for about six months, like you'll never catch up. And so I stopped listening to new music, for the most part, you know, in the early 2000s. So, um, my, my, my ability to know new music now is very limited, but I'm the same did.

Shawn:

Uh, did you see celine's performance at the olympics um?

Justin:

could I see it? Yeah, it took me about five times before I could actually watch it without crying. I have tried to start the documentary and I can't even make it like five minutes in without being like OK, like so. I haven't even finished the documentary that she has.

Shawn:

I don't care what country you're from. She is your national treasure, right, right?

Justin:

A hundred percent.

Shawn:

Oh, I was such a mess watching and I don't even know why it snuck up on me, because I like to think that I'm not excitable anymore. But I was just, I was, literally I was. I was like do you understand the backstory here and where she came from?

Justin:

just like no, I do too. I was there too. I was just like she's singing again, and she's singing in the Olympics and she's singing in Paris and she's singing on the Eiffel Tower and it's this beautiful dress and her voice is amazing. And yeah.

Shawn:

I mean, let me just say on the record that Celine Dion singing quote unquote, compromised, blows most people out of the fucking water Right.

Justin:

Right, a hundred percent, like, a hundred percent, like. It is just. That is um. Her voice is a is truly an instrument, but it's like a magical instrument. An instrument, but it's like a magical instrument. It is a gift. Yeah, yeah, it is so. It is so fascinating.

Shawn:

Okay, what was your favorite experience over the last year?

Justin:

Um, you know, I mean, for all the travel that I get to do and all the things that you know, people I get to meet, and everything in my job and all of that, um, honestly, honestly, like my favorite experiences have been hanging out at home with my partner and with the dog and like kind of getting to that we're just living right like the.

Justin:

I mean, it's it, you know it's amazing to fly to you know europe for a couple of days for a concert, um, but the best part of that is actually coming home, which I know sounds really fucking cheesy, but you know, I think that just that feeling is really, really nice feeling I've actually been saying to people almost like a sense of wonderment, which is maybe an indictment of who I was prior to this year in any capacity.

Shawn:

But people are like what's going on? What's going on in your life? How are you? What do you got coming up, or you know what's exciting, that's happened. And I'm like, honestly, for everything that you know we have done and I've been fortunate enough to do quite a bit is I just love kind of being at home grabbing a book, cooking dinner, you know, having a wine and just chatting with Posh or something really. And I love where we live and I love the people in my life and I love the life that we built. I live in Seattle and, uh, you know, the sun is setting at four, 15 and we're anticipating, between now and probably March, it's just going to be a lot of rain and no sun and people complain about it and I'm kind of like I don't know, I, I, I, you know, lighting a fire, lighting some candles, you know, laying on the couch with a blanket and a book. It's just I don't know. I'm really enjoying this, this part of my life, this aspect of my life. So I'm right there with you.

Justin:

Yeah, yeah, also, I like that you say you live in Seattle. We all know you don't live in Seattle. Well, yes, that's absolutely true, it's absolutely true.

Shawn:

You know what the mistake I made was is you live right here too, so when you talk to people that don't live in this region, you say seattle right, a hundred percent, yeah, but when you talk to people that live, here if you say you live in seattle and you don't, yeah right, right, but that's any place, any places like that right I remember when I first moved to dc and I said I lived in dc and people like no, you live in virginia.

Shawn:

And it was like okay it's across river, but it's a different thing.

Justin:

Yeah, I like, I mean this, that though, that that piece of, uh, you're right, like the with everything that's going on, you know this year has been, you know, difficult, I know, for a number of folks, like when everything's going on and everything that you know could happen. It's, it's the being with the people that you know you love and that love you and that you can just hang out with is really the is the best Christmas gift. No, to end it, real cheesy Hallmark movie stuff.

Shawn:

Right, and yet we're not ending it.

Justin:

So, oh God, now we're done All right. Well, save that for the end.

Shawn:

Okay, I'm totally not going to do that. But okay, that's too much editing. Do you know that I do that with some folks?

Justin:

Oh, so you do that for other folks, but you don't do that for me?

Shawn:

No, because you're best when you're raw.

Justin:

And that sounds horrible. Wow, how many glasses of wine have you had, s?

Shawn:

I don't count in glasses, Justin Right.

Justin:

That is also a very middle-aged thing, I'm the same way. It's one glass. If it's a bottle, right yeah. Or a box, whatever, whatever. Well, if you're having one box of wine a tonight, we we should probably chat a little bit about that yeah, agreed.

Shawn:

No, not that bad yet.

Justin:

Yes okay, uh, favorite tv series that you've been watching the first first is Megre.

Shawn:

It's a series, a detective series that goes back decades, okay, of books that was translated into a number of different TV series, but the one that I've been watching has, believe it or not, Rowan Atkinson as the detective inspector, interesting. I didn't know what to expect because you know he's Mr Bean, right, right, right, and it's a very serious role. And so I was watching it and Posh came in the living room and he's like, oh, mr Bean, and I was like actually it's Maygray, detective Maygray, and it's. He's like, oh, is it like a comedy? And I was like no, and he's like I don't get it. And the thing is he's amazing. Yeah, I was actually like IMDBing Rowan to see if he did anything else dramatic that I could see, because it's so good, yeah, and I couldn't find find anything, but it's worth seeing. It's m-a-i-g-r-e-t.

Shawn:

Amazing, okay, uh, and there's only like four episodes, but each episode is a movie length okay and then the other that I've been watching is a british show, uh called no offense, and it's just three series long, three seasons long, and it's it's a police like procedural. Every series has its own arc, but it's cheeky and unconventional and yet serious at the same time. It's so well-written and so well-acted and it's female led across the board. I just love it. I wish it had gone on. I wish it was going on forever. I love the board. I just love it. I wish it had gone on. I wish it was going on forever. I love the characters. I love the stories. No offense, definitely.

Justin:

Okay, what about you? Um, so also sticking across the pond um heart stoppers? Oh yeah, yes, um, when I I randomly like one Sundayay a few, like two months ago, I just it was on netflix or something like as a you might like this type of thing, and I started watching it and I was like, oh my gosh, how did I not know about this? It's just cute and it's like this. You know, obviously they're dealing with some heavy issues. Have you seen it?

Shawn:

oh, okay, I've heard quite a bit about it though yeah, yeah, it's, it's.

Justin:

You know two, uh, two kids and and you know what would be our equivalent of our high school, right, um, become friends and then fall in love and it's their whole experience of coming out and dealing with all of that.

Justin:

And then there's other issues that they have different. You know, their friend, their friend group has that, that, you know it's. It's that in some ways it's the quintessential teenage, you know, kind of drama, afterschool special type of thing in a way, right, but but it's centered around queer, queer folk, which I just it's it's really neat to see and I kind of like there's a part of me that as I was watching it was like you know, obviously, I know it's fictional, it's made up, but like you know, being I was in the closet when I was in high school, so I didn't have that experience, right, you couldn't have that openness, and so seeing that was just really kind of neat and thinking, I don't know, I just really fell in love with that show, uh, it was just so cute. And then you know, the one that I, I just I'm excited about and I just I hope that I don't get disappointed in is um on hpo, which is dune prophecy don't watch it.

Justin:

No, I got I'm three seasons, I'm three episodes in. You think it's? You like it? Well, I'm I. I don't know, there's this part of me. Maybe it's just because I so love the original of that. I know that the books get a little weird in the end, but I don't know, maybe I'm just holding on.

Shawn:

We watched the first episode and both of us were like we can't do this.

Justin:

Don't you do that with most series? No?

Shawn:

I'm okay If a series grabs me. I need it to grab me in the first episode, otherwise I'm like. I'm like, I'm 48 years old. I don't have time for this.

Justin:

Oh see, I'm much more like they got to get me in the first, like probably four, but right now it's, it's okay, it's starting to get there, Okay, is it? You know, s, I don't have a lot to look forward to, so I'm I just got to go with what I, what I can, right now. I don't know, you know it's funny, though I I just finished.

Shawn:

I can't believe I did.

Justin:

I just uh uh game of thrones for the ninth time the series the series I've now watched it more times than it's actually season four, but I also tend to put it on and then just fall asleep during it and like take three hour naps um I was gonna say like middle of the day, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there are still cute parts, there are still good parts that you see and you're like this was a good show.

Shawn:

You know, one of those actresses has a new series coming out where she plays like a, a chameleon, like she's a different character in every episode, but I can't. Who's the? This is so horrible. The redhead.

Justin:

Sansa Stark. Yes, it's her. I just thought, oh, I was just thinking about this the other day because at the end, when Spoiler alert she becomes Queen of the North and she's in that fabulous dress and I'm just like why did they end the episode? I want to see more about her. And she's in that fabulous dress and I'm just like why did they end the episode? I want to see more about her. Well, she's back, oh, perfect. I think it's called Joan or something. Her name is. What is her name?

Shawn:

Why can't I think of it? You're looking it up.

Justin:

Sophie Turner.

Shawn:

Yes, yes, Alright, I'm excited about that.

Justin:

Joan, that sounds fun. Yeah, I mean also. The other one that's going to come out soon is what is it? Is the Last of Us, the next series of that? So I like that one.

Shawn:

That was so well written and so well acted and I loved that. It was kind of like every episode in its own way was a bit standalone.

Justin:

Yes, yeah, well, there's.

Shawn:

And then there's the one episode with Nick Offerman and so outside of the queer component to it, where do you come down on that episode?

Justin:

First off, the Linda Ronstadt. Like as the music behind this like amazing, amazing, so you just got to put that out there.

Justin:

I think it was a really well done episode because it wasn't like to me that it was a love story Like you could have put. You know, it could have been two men, it could have been two women, it could have been a man and a woman, like it was a. You know, two people found themselves in this you know ridiculous situation, right that they're in in this ridiculous situation that they're in but that they had a life together.

Justin:

And I think any of those stories, because I think it's so when you think about it, when you find somebody, whatever the situation is around you, and you make that connection, that's just a beautiful thing, for however long it lasts.

Shawn:

So I really liked it.

Justin:

What did you think if you? If you say you didn't like it, then I think we're gonna have to re-examine our friendship at first my first reaction was, like what's the point of this episode?

Shawn:

right, because it doesn't advance the storyline. You could cut that and have the same storyline. Yes, but I had a warm feeling to the episode and then part of me was like, is it just because it's like gay guys? But the more I thought about it, the more I was thinking I really appreciate this commitment when you don't have to and maybe you probably shouldn't if you care about wokeness or cancel culture or money, even Like, maybe you shouldn't do an episode like this.

Shawn:

But the fact that they did shows just this commitment to telling stories that are a little outside of the mainstream but could be devastatingly beautiful and meaningful to some people. Right, yeah, but in its own way, like I appreciate, getting back to this, what I don't know. I'd call it like slow storytelling. Yes, like it doesn't have to directly and immediately impact a storyline. To impact a storyline, to give it like weight and to give culture to a story in a way that is beyond just the driving force you know, and for that I give it well, here we go five stars. I think it was like it was. It was so profound in that context and I appreciate it for that.

Justin:

Yeah yeah, I think that. But I think that is on to something of like, you know so much of our lives right now. Right Is about you know the point A to point B as quickly as possible. Right, you get your news alerts on your phone. You read the headline but you don't read the article, right, you, you know you're, you're, when you're driving, you're taking the fastest route, the route with the least traffic, whatever it is right, everything is about going so fast, and I do think there's something to be said about like, our stories in our lives are not like that, right, they are slow and they take time and they deviate, and something beautiful happen, even when you're you know it's not on the quote unquote path you're supposed to be on, and so I think you're right. Like this, them doing this was a really good, just deviation. That was so beautiful, you know. So one of the things that I have learned from this is that it's very difficult for us to stay within the year.

Justin:

Yeah, that's okay, it's what we might have experienced this year.

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't know what's next. Like is it my turn? Sure, it can be your turn. Okay, so what is one of your pleasant surprises this year? Something you didn't expect.

Justin:

This sounds so how much I have just fallen in love with my fake godson. Um, some friends of mine recently had a baby and they have said like oh, you're the godfather, you're the godfather. And we've laughed and everything about it, and like we went and visited them over thanksgiving and this kid is five months old in a pure bundle of joy and just laughter and um, and like I was just like holy shit, like I don't want to have kids but I get it like just the and and I didn't expect. You know I I have a niece and nephew who are now grown and you know I'm very proud of them and I love them very much. And like my nephew graduated from high school and starting college and it's all very exciting. But that like little kid thing, like the little little kids where you're just like they are experiencing the world for the first time and how like they can just be so energized by it, that was, that was unexpected. I didn't. I didn't expect to feel that way by it.

Shawn:

that was unexpected. I didn't expect to feel that way we have in our life when we moved here. There's somebody we made quick friends with and she had a son right after we moved here. So we've kind of been part of his life since well, I don't want to say inception or conception but since he was born, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shawn:

So he's six this year and we've just watched him. I apologize to the people this might offend, but when he was one to three I was like, oh God, this thing Once he hit four, his brain and the way he thinks and his excitement and energy and everything is new to him. And he's six now and he can be such a pain in the ass. But at the same time, if we could bottle this and just give this to everybody as a reminder of, like, the wonder and joy of the world that is irrespective, not ignoring, but you know, that is, I guess, exists in tandem with some of the horror that we, you know, ingest every day could maybe level a playing field a little bit, you know.

Justin:

Yeah, no, I totally, I totally appreciate that. I mean, it was funny because as I was flying back from from California and seeing my friends, like I was in the plane and I was like it's amazing that I'm flying you know, I have to fly a lot for work and it's like just that moment of like you know, and you know, maybe it was the couple of champagnes I had, maybe it was being around the kid, but it was that like there is wonder in the world, you know, even when it's when, when we don't think about it all the time. And I think that's why, when you're around kids, like you said, like you know them learning geography, and it's like, well, yeah, of course I know where Wisconsin is, I've known it for blah, blah, blah, and then they're like oh, my God, that's where Wisconsin is. Shawn, what are you most looking forward to in a positive way in the next year?

Shawn:

You know I. So I mean just full disclosure. The election was heartbreaking for me and you know I mean, if you've been following the podcast in any capacity, you know that, like this is not the outcome that I wanted. And then I have true concerns about our future.

Shawn:

Being said, I have found in people close to me a sense of compassion and empathy and resilience that I just didn't see before. I saw this in the queer community too. This sounds controversial to say and you can call me out on it, but I feel like the queer community as a community was tighter and more supportive in periods of real oppression than we were in periods of real liberation. And I think this is an indictment to some degree, not just the queer community, but just of dominant society, which is when you are living in periods of liberation. That does not absolve you of a responsibility to take care of the less fortunate or of the most oppressed people, and I think that has happened. Yeah, I think this transcends, you know, race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, etc. You know, and that's not to say that also we should have, you know, societies that delineate oppression from liberation so that people can have a sense of community.

Shawn:

But I have found that since this, there has been a reinvigoration of people really coalescing around what it means to be community and what it means to be in community with each other, and I've noticed that just in the last four weeks since the election, that kind of coalescence, and I'm really enjoying it, and so I'm kind of looking forward to to answer your question. I'm kind of looking forward to, like where does this go Like? Can we build something lasting and permanent and enduring out of this that really leads to something that is, I don't know, hopeful and something we can build on, that brings us not just political satisfaction but a personal and individual sense of fulfillment in our lives that I think might be lacking, and I know that probably sounds, I don't know, rehearsed, but it's not. What about you?

Justin:

It doesn't. It doesn't sound rehearsed at all, it sounds very genuine and I, I, I really appreciate it. I think you're right.

Justin:

There's in the you know, day to day of life, we, I think we forget what it actually means to live Right, and and I think that when we have experiences that allow us to take a step back and say what really is important is, you know, being with my friends or my family, or you know, going, you know, out for a walk with the dog.

Justin:

Or, you know, versus answering another email, right, walk with the dog. Or you know, versus answering another email, right, like. I think that you know we weren't made to do we as humans, weren't made to do this day to day that we've forced ourselves into. And I think that anytime we get an experience right, anytime we get an opportunity to really reconnect with people, it just it brings us back to being human again. So I really appreciate that I, you know, Shawn, I mean if, if you'll have me back, I'm looking forward to next year, cause I really want to see if we can a answer a question with just one favorite thing, and be, if there'll be anything that you know the kids would recognize in any of our answers.

Justin:

Because I, I think we, I think we've hit the age where we're just old now.

Shawn:

Wait, you're wiping out this entire episode. What you're saying is nothing we talked about will resonate with anyone under a certain age. Is that what you're saying?

Justin:

That's kind of what I'm saying, yeah.

Shawn:

Well, more power to the middle agers More power.

Justin:

Yes, I mean, I do feel like Gen X needs to. You know, we need to take some of our power back.

Shawn:

Isn't that funny, though, like when we were coming up, everyone was talking about Gen X, and now no one, no one, talks about it. It's baby boomers, and then straight to Y.

Justin:

Yep, yep, yep. They're like Gen X, whatever. What did you guys ever do?

Shawn:

We had a huge cultural impact, didn't we?

Justin:

Early 90s Huge I mean yeah, baggy jeans and grunge music. What was our impact?

Shawn:

Okay, that sounds like it really diminishes it, but I mean Pearl Jam, nirvana. Oh, true, true, diminishes it, but I mean pearl jam, nirvana.

Justin:

Oh, true, true, yeah, I mean any musician today that says that nirvana didn't have some impact on them. Fuck you, yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I understand, I get it, but you know anyway, justin, yeah, what's the holiday message you want to send?

Justin:

Just you know, s, I've really I think. I just want to say I think your podcast is really excellent and I mean that not just because you have me on it, but you know I've seen it grow over the last number of years and the series you did this summer was really really cool and I'm looking forward to seeing how that grows for you. Really really cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that grows for you and I just hope that everybody has a very safe and happy, you know Christmas and holidays and that you know hold on to each other, because that's what we're here for I mean, it's really what we got at the end of the day, right?

Shawn:

Like if you cut everything out, like what we have at the end of the day is each other. This is a moment where we need to embrace each other. I agree A hundred percent.

Justin:

Yeah, and I think, s, I really think that more people wanted. I think there are more people in the world that want to embrace each other than force people off a plank, and I think we just have to find, you know the what's the quote? Uh, find the helpers, oh yeah. In a crisis, look for the helpers, oh yeah.

Shawn:

In a crisis, look for the helpers yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Shawn:

Yeah Well, you have been a helper to me.

Justin:

Oh, thank you, bud. Bud, that's such a Midwestern response. Ah, thank you bud. Thanks, bud. Oh, this is also like a Midwestern goodbye, right, I'm like standing in the doorway like, okay, we're gonna leave and we keep chatting Anyway.

Shawn:

So like happy holidays to everybody, right, Yep, Happy holidays everybody.

Shawn:

All right, that's it for us. I hope you've enjoyed hearing some of our favorite things here at Deep Dive and that maybe we've given you some things to check out when you have some free time. I genuinely hope that this holiday season, whether you're celebrating something or not, is peaceful, gentle, kind and relaxing. So, from our house to yours, happy holidays and check back next week for our final episode of the year, when we'll be bringing you our annual State of the Union with friends of the pod Dr Sarah Benesch to discuss the state of the American judiciary and the Supreme Court, dr Edward Watts to discuss how the fall of Rome can inform the current state of our American Union and what might be coming down the pike, and Dr James Hodden to discuss the state of political violence in the United States, how it's evolving and if we need to start building safe rooms in our houses. Chat soon, folks, thank you, thank you.

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Shawn C. Fettig

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