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Leaving America E5: Spotlight on Honduras!

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Christina Korpi, fresh out of college with degrees in Spanish and psychology, arrived in Honduras with practical preparations but couldn't anticipate how profoundly this Central American nation would challenge her American perspective.

The cultural adjustments began immediately. Despite Spanish fluency from previous stays in Spain and Mexico, Honduras presented its own linguistic nuances. More surprising were social expectations—Christina packed practical clothes for the tropical climate but discovered Hondurans prioritized style and formal dress despite the heat. Even medical norms differed dramatically, exemplified by her startling experience with a dentist who diagnosed eight non-existent cavities.

What emerges most powerfully through Christina's story is the stark contrast between American individualism and Honduran community-orientation. Where Americans schedule playdates, Hondurans gather spontaneously in communal spaces. Where Americans isolate in climate-controlled homes, Hondurans live predominantly outdoors. Where Americans buy fully-constructed homes through mortgages, Hondurans traditionally purchased land first, then built room-by-room as finances allowed—though Christina notes with concern how American-style credit systems have increasingly penetrated Honduras in recent years.

We also discuss the ethical dimensions of American expatriation. With average Hondurans earning $600-700 monthly while American retirees live on several thousand, economic disparities become starkly visible in places like Roatan, where luxury developments for foreigners neighbor impoverished communities. Christina emphasizes awareness and engagement with local economic realities when considering relocation.

For those contemplating international moves, Christina's advice centers on openness rather than expectation. Success abroad requires genuine engagement with cultural differences—not attempting to recreate American standards. Three years in Honduras taught her that what appears as American convenience often masks disconnection, while what might seem like Honduran simplicity fosters deeper community bonds and authentic joy.

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David Lesperance:

Hello, my name is David Westbrunst and in the over 35 years since I was called to the bar in 1990, I've been advising American and global families on the tax and immigration issues involved in designing and executing international backup plans. Along with my legal expertise, I also draw my experience as a border official while in law school, acquiring lineage citizenships in several countries for myself and numerous family members and moving my own family overseas three times. Unlike most advisors in this area, I do not take commissions from third parties such as governments, fund managers or real estate developers. This allows my clients to have confidence that my advice is unconflicted and agnostic and always in their own best interest.

Shawn:

Welcome to Leaving America, the podcast. For those of you who look at the crumbling bridges, the politicians quoting scripture instead of science, or the rising sea levels lapping at your front door and think there's got to be other options, today's episode is the first of a few throughout the series in which I, along with the help of my partner in crime, my best mate, my husband Pavel, are interviewing some friends of ours that have actually lived abroad about their experiences, how they did it, what surprised them, how they adjusted, what they do differently. Kind of the sky's the limit for the conversations. Hey, pavel, welcome to Leaving America. Hi, sean. So last week we focused on Latin America, some Central and South American countries that offer some great opportunities for Americans wanting to move abroad. What countries have you visited in Central and South America?

Pavel:

I've been to Costa Rica, mexico and Peru.

Shawn:

I think a lot of people assume that Latin America is a monolith. Like all the countries are very similar. Did you find them to be similar? Not at all.

Pavel:

Not at all. They're all distinctively different, and I loved the non-Americanized places the most, and that is Peru.

Shawn:

So Peru is your favorite? I would say so, yeah, did you find that? So I've only been to Mexico and Panama, one of the countries I've never been to. Well, I haven't been to quite a few of them, but one of them is Honduras, and I and you've never been to Honduras, yeah, but one of our friends has Christina Corpy, and she lived there for three years. So she's the that's who we're talking to today about her experience living there.

Pavel:

Yeah, when I was growing up, there was this song about Honduras and it was quite popular.

David Lesperance:

Let me.

Pavel:

Google the lyrics, because there was something funny about the lyrics. It's a Russian song. Yeah, all day you've paid me no attention, not a single word. You said to me. Honduras is in ruin and decay, political collapse in the country. Come to me, come to me, I love you, I'm yours, honduras is on fire. Honduras is on fire. There's nothing in the stores. Oh my God, that's outdated. It seemed like they, yeah, they tried to like. Yeah, it's like a supportive, a song, supportive of Honduras.

Shawn:

Yeah, I think it was very catchy. I'm sure it was. I get the impression that maybe Honduras has changed a little bit.

Pavel:

Well yeah, I know that it did.

Shawn:

We can talk about life in Honduras with Christina and see if it maps onto this song well or not.

Pavel:

Yeah Well, where are your hosts Pavel and Sean?

Shawn:

And if you've ever watched a school band to kill a mockingbird and thought this feels less like 2025 and more like 1925, you're in the right place To stay updated on the latest episodes. Follow, like and share Leaving America on the Deep Dive with Sean podcast feed. Wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're already living in Honduras or you're just trying to figure out how you'll survive without Amazon Prime, we want to hear from you. Email us at deepdivewithshawn at gmailcom.

Pavel:

All right, pack your bags and cats and dogs and babies. This is Living America. Your cat in the bag, okay, yes sir P cat in the bag.

Shawn:

Okay, yes, sir Posh, you can stop that.

Pavel:

Why that could be our dynamic.

Shawn:

No, I don't want that to be our dynamic.

Pavel:

Yes, sir.

Shawn:

Okay, here we go. Hey, Christina.

Christina Korpi:

Hey Sean, hey Christina.

Shawn:

Hey, christina hey.

Christina Korpi:

Sean hey, christina hey Pavel.

Shawn:

So we wanted to talk to you because we're doing this podcast Leaving America about people that maybe are considering moving to another country outside of the States, and one component of that podcast is talking to some people that we know that have lived outside of the States to talk a little bit about their experience you have. So why don't you tell us, maybe first off, where you've lived outside the US?

Christina Korpi:

I've lived outside of the US on three different occasions. First, I studied abroad when I was in college. I went to Granada, spain, which is in Southern Spain, and I was there for about four months. And then, after that experience, the next summer I spent in Mexico and I was there for about four months. And then, after that experience, the next summer, I spent in Mexico and I was there for two months. And then, after I graduated from under my undergraduate, I moved to Honduras and I lived there for just over three years.

Pavel:

Why Honduras?

Christina Korpi:

Well, I had. When I was graduating, I majored in Spanish and psychology. And when I was graduating, I majored in Spanish and psychology. And when I was graduating, I wanted to work with children and I wanted to work in a Spanish-speaking country, and so I was looking for programs that I could go abroad, and I originally was considering the Peace Corps, but at the time the Peace Corps sounded like a long commitment because it was I believe it's a 24 month commitment and I thought that sounded pretty long. And so I found an organization that took volunteers for 12 months, and so I applied for that organization and I got offered a position in Honduras.

Shawn:

It sounds like maybe the organization took care of this for you and it makes sense that the school went for you as well when you were in Spain, but do you remember having to do anything related to the visa process?

Christina Korpi:

Well, when I went to Honduras with Spain I don't think I I actually don't remember Because I, yeah, I think my school did most of that for me. I don't think, and and I wonder now if it was Spain allows you to be there for six months without a visa. But I was not. I don't believe I had a visa when I was in Spain, but when I went to Honduras, we definitely did need to get residency, because if you're there for longer than 90 days, you have to have residency, and so the organization that I was working for was affiliated with the Catholic Church, and so, through the Catholic Church in Honduras, we were able to get residency for our length of stay, and it had to be renewed yearly. And so I got residence for my first year there, and then, when I stayed additional years, I just had to renew my residency each year.

Pavel:

So it's not like a permanent residency.

Christina Korpi:

No, it was more or less like a working permit type residency, and so I had to, each year, provide evidence that I was still with the same organization and still doing the same work.

Shawn:

Did you choose Honduras, or was that chosen for you?

Christina Korpi:

Well, when I applied, the organization that I worked for is called Nuestros Pequeños Hermanos and they have children's homes in nine different countries in Latin America, and so when I applied to the organization, I indicated that I would basically be willing to go to any of the nine countries. But they did have you list preferences, and so I believe Honduras was on my list of the three preferences and that was where I got offered a position. So I guess there was, I had some say in it, but also it was just where the vacancies were that you got offered positions at.

Shawn:

Moving overseas is not a small thing and I think at different stages in our life, the process of doing that probably looks a bit differently. I imagine that if you were planning to make a move overseas now, you would plan very differently than you did when you were just out of university. But when you did and I'm especially thinking about Honduras, because that ended up being a three-year stay, so that's a pretty significant period of time how did you prepare to make an international move like that?

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, I think originally, when I went to my first time abroad, when I went to Spain, I was minoring in Spanish language and, after living in Spain for a couple of months, I decided that I was really interested in the language and in becoming more fluent and even understanding cultures of various Spanish speaking countries in a better and more intimate way, and so that was really the impetus of trying to live abroad and work in a better and more intimate way.

Christina Korpi:

And so I um, that was really the impetus of trying to live abroad and work in a Spanish speaking country.

Christina Korpi:

And then, um, in preparing for that, I tried to understand as much as I could about the country that I was going to, and then also thinking about you know, when you're going, when you're moving somewhere for a year but you're going on an airplane, you have to consider what you're going to bring with you and how much you're going to take and what makes the most sense to bring with you.

Christina Korpi:

And I think a lot of that is very practical, like I need to have appropriate clothing for the weather and the culture, and I need to make sure that I'm that I have my basics covered when it comes to medicine, when it comes to medical insurance, and so trying to really pack appropriately and then also make sure that I had the appropriate coverage, whether with medicine or with insurance, those were all part of preparing, and I think it's hard to pack up I mean trying to pack as lightly as possible while also moving abroad. I think I ended up packing with one checked bag and one backpack and then a carry-on, and trying to pack your life up into a relatively small space can be a difficult task, and so preparation took a while to try to just determine what I was going to bring and how I was going to move my life for a long period and into a small space.

Pavel:

Was it exciting, or were you anxious, or like what were you feeling?

Christina Korpi:

I think a little bit of both. I think, mostly excited, I think at that age too, I was young, I didn't have many responsibilities at the time and I was just kind of like it was like going to your first real job when you're not in school at the same time, and so there was a freeing element to it and also an excitement about the change in environment, but also an anxiety about being in a different country, being in a different culture, being in a different language, being with a new group of people and a new community, being with a new group of people and a new community. And so I think all of that was combined into kind of an anxious excitement.

Pavel:

So you didn't know anybody when you were moving over there, right, it was just the place that you were.

Christina Korpi:

I actually did know one person, which was somewhat of a coincidence. So when I was graduating from college, one of my friends from high school who I didn't go to the same college with, but we were both considering kind of this abroad experience, and so when I started applying I shared about the organization with her and so she ended up applying as well and we both got offered positions in Honduras, and so that was really helpful because I had a friend that I was traveling with and so some of the anxiety about like going to some but someplace entirely alone was there was a buffer to that, because I did know somebody that I was traveling with, but she ended up we were there together for a year and then she ended up going back home and she went to med school after that and I stayed longer after she left, but I did have that camaraderie as I moved down there.

Shawn:

That's nice, that makes a big difference.

Christina Korpi:

Definitely, it definitely made it easier to adjust.

Shawn:

So you spoke and speak Spanish and you went to a Spanish speaking country. So that probably goes a long way towards. I think when we talk about things like culture shock, people immediately think about a different language, but I assume that going from the United States to a Latin American country like Honduras, you probably did experience some type of culture shock.

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, yeah, I think that there were still surprises, there were still differences that I wasn't anticipating, but I think that it makes it a lot easier when you well, and even with the language after living in Spain and living in Mexico, I think each Spanish speaking country has a very different accent and it took me longer than I would have expected to kind of adjust to the Honduran accent and really be able to communicate at the level that I felt like I should and could, and so I think there was some adjustment with that and a little bit of surprise and feeling like, oh gosh, I'm lost in this conversation, but I know that I know Spanish. So that took a couple of months and I think I was also. I mean talking about packing and trying to move your life to a new country, taking as little as possible. I think there was. There's a lot of practicality that goes into packing of like okay, what are the necessities that I need? And that's looking, like I said, at both the weather and the culture.

Christina Korpi:

But I think once I got there, I was kind of surprised and a little unprepared for the way, like, just like we do here, people have a lot of style, people dress up, people like to wear nice. I think in some ways, people tend to dress up even more in Honduras than they do in Seattle, for example, and so I think I felt a little bit unprepared in terms of having accessories and outfits that I felt matched the level of style that locals had. And so I think that was an adjustment that I made once I got there, of kind of like, oh, I brought all this very practical stuff and it was appropriate attire because it's a very warm country and climate, but people don't especially women don't really wear shorts very often, for example. Um, so I didn't bring a lot of shorts, but I also didn't expect people to wear jeans as much as they do, because jeans here at home it's like you don't necessarily wear jeans in the heat of the summer, um, but in honduras they wear jeans pretty much year round, and so some of those things that were cultural or just stylish that I didn't expect, that I adjusted to once I got there.

Christina Korpi:

And I think the other adjustment was in kind of the approach to the medical system. I think that was maybe one of my anxieties. Going down is just like, okay, how do I make sure that I have medical insurance while I'm there and how do I make sure that I'm that, if anything were to happen, that I would have the appropriate coverage to get the type of care that I need or expect? And yeah, they. They just have a very different healthcare system down there and, luckily and thank goodness, nothing nothing terrible or emergency ever happened to me while I was there, but but I think that was that was one of the anxieties of like, okay, how do I make sure that I have the everything that I need to get the type of care that I need if anything were to happen?

Pavel:

Did you ever have to go to a doctor there.

Christina Korpi:

No, I actually I went a couple of times with to accompany friends to the doctor. But I am trying to think, but I don't think for myself. I don't think I ever had to go to a doctor. I did go to a dentist once and the dentist told me um, the dentist told me that I had eight cavities and she was like do you want me to fill them? And I was like no, it's okay, I think I'll get a second opinion. And I actually had a trip scheduled to come home and I went to the dentist when I got home and the dentist was like Nope, your teeth look great. And I was like well, I just got told in Honduras that I had eight cavities and they were like, oh no, that's wrong. So I'm cavities. And they were like, oh no, that's wrong. So I'm glad that I, I'm glad that I didn't choose to get those cavities filled, because I think they would have just been, uh, unnecessary fillings was there a lot of that type of experience where people like like providing the incorrect information or like cheating you in a way I think, I mean, I mean, I think that the that more so like, uh, showing up as a white person um

Christina Korpi:

there was a lot of expectation that I had more money to give, and so there would be times, like on the local buses or going to the market, where I might be charged more than um somebody who was before or after me, and learning to navigate that and determine when it was appropriate to say, you know, that's not the going rate, versus maybe paying a couple of limpitas extra because that was the appropriate thing to do. I think there was some nuance there and kind of determining when it was worth it to to argue or barter a price versus when to just pay it.

Shawn:

Aval, you moved to a country that didn't speak the language you grew up speaking. Did you find that particularly difficult?

Pavel:

Oh, yeah, I mean like I spoke American English before moving to New Zealand but when I got my first job and we had on one of the first team meetings, I was sitting completely stressed because I could not understand half of what everybody was talking about because of their thick accent and a different slang, like some of the words that they were using. I was like what? Like oh, mean, that's mean, and I'm like that's not me, I'm not being mean, but like it means something else over there. So, uh, yeah, definitely it. I think it took. It took about half a year or so to get used to it. But yeah, I mean, you just get through it by continuing immersing yourself in that culture and not sticking around with just like you know, Russian friends or just your native speakers?

Pavel:

you have to go out there and be with locals, right?

Christina Korpi:

Did that help you.

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, I think that's one of the hurdles to get over. I think that there's definitely some people who kind of shut down when they experience that and they're just like, oh no, I'm going to say that I feel embarrassed or I'm going to say the wrong thing, but I think that the people that actually are able to assimilate or learn are the ones that lean in and say like, okay, how am I going to figure this out so that I do it right the next time, or say it right the next time, or I understand it right the next time? And that's the way that you can kind of get better and pick up on things. There were definitely other in the program that I worked with. There were definitely other volunteers that sometimes would shut down and you would just see, like over the course of months and months and months, they had a hard time picking up on the language or or being able to communicate, versus people who would kind of lean into that discomfort and make a lot more progress in a shorter period of time.

Pavel:

You just have to get out of your bubble.

Christina Korpi:

Exactly.

Shawn:

So I think, rightly or wrongly you know, Honduras specifically could be viewed as a developing country and that maybe it has some dangerous components to it. What was your experience with that, Christina? And maybe even considering the fact that at the time you're a single woman, if that was any concern that you had living there?

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, I think that sometimes I look back and think like, oh man, I maybe didn't consider that enough. I think, being young and freshly out of college and kind of living just being bold in that way, I think I didn't really consider some of the dangers in the same way that I do today, especially now that I have a young child and we still go back to Honduras frequently, and I think I feel very differently about the dangers now. Even like riding public buses I hear now about situations in which public buses are held up or robbed or things that happen in the country on a regular basis now hit me in a different way than it did when I was young, and when I was young I kind of felt like, well, I'll just take it as it comes. And now, maybe more mature, I'm kind of like, okay, how do I make sure that I'm safe or we're safe in this situation and what does that look like? And so I think I was maybe a little bolder when I was young and I didn't really worry about it as much as I might today.

Christina Korpi:

The Peace Corps had pulled out of Honduras. I think it was the year before, I think in 2010,. After there was a governmental coup and the Peace Corps pulled out, and so I think that was the year before I moved there, and so I think now I would consider all of that very differently than I did then, or I didn't really consider the weight of that as much as I might now.

Shawn:

I think I'm starting to get a better picture of why they had so many openings in Honduras, but the flip side of that is that you can still have a good experience even in places that have a hard scrabble side to them. So what were some of the maybe unexpected pleasant surprises that you had living abroad?

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, absolutely. I think just the pace of life. I think America is, or the United States is, very much. We grind here, we work a lot, people talk a lot about work-life balance but there isn't a whole lot of balance and I think being in a country that felt just like the pace of life really was more take it as it comes and be present in the moment. The work schedule was maybe a little bit less demanding I mean, I still had a schedule, but it was much more flexible and I think, just the joy. I think, uh, being in a country and a culture where maybe there isn't a whole lot of stuff, people aren't as wealthy, um, as they may be in in other places around the world, but they just have, um, uh joy in life that that sometimes feels lacking in our demanding day-to-day that we live in the United States. I think that that was a pleasant surprise and also a very welcome change in a different perspective on how to live on a day-to-day basis. How to live on a day-to-day basis.

Christina Korpi:

Were people generally nicer Like was there were you able to quickly build a community of some sort for yourself.

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, I think that there, I mean, there's much more of a, it's a much more community-oriented society, and I think that just being I mean, I was also working in a place that was it was a children's home it had over 400 children living in the same community and so it was just a very large family style community to begin with, and so I think that they're living in that kind of environment is just very we live very isolated here and very individualistic, and so I think being in kind of that community environment was refreshing and seeing how people just come together and help each other out and show up for one another, offer a hand, offer a meal, for volunteer time I think those seeing more of that there than I ever had here was definitely eye-opening and offered a perspective on life that has stuck with me ever since of just like why can't we live more like that?

Christina Korpi:

Or why are we becoming, I think, with technology, even more so? Everyone, everyone is just kind of in their own world a lot of the time, and I think that we miss out on a lot by not engaging in community in that way.

Shawn:

I think underscoring this point of American isolationism and individualism is the fact that we are recording this in the same house but we're all in different rooms, that we are recording this in the same house, but we're all in different rooms.

Shawn:

A lot of the people that I've interviewed for this series have talked about how the American dream is, in many ways, a bit of an illusion. Yes, it's true that in the United States, our standard of living tends to be much higher than most other places on the planet, as is the cost of living, but that we have a level of convenience that we're very accustomed to in the United States that doesn't exist in other countries, but that, at the same time, the cost of living, like I mentioned, is very high. In the United States we are a very lonely country. There's a lot of anxiety and depression. In the United States. We have a very strong gun culture.

Shawn:

I think you have to take those things on balance. But actually, pavel, this question is directed at you because you have a unique perspective in that you, while you have lived in other countries, you're the only one of the three of us that actually moved into the United States, so you must have been exposed to the idea of what the American dream is, but now you're actually experiencing it. So how have you found it is?

Pavel:

actually one of the most noticeable ones for me here. It's very difficult to make friends here as well. I don't know if it's the age thing or something else, but generally people are much more closed and reserved and keep each other at a very, you know, big distance. So, yeah, I mean you have a higher quality of life, but you pay a lot more for it by working longer days or, you know, stressing about the costs that you pay to fix things around the house, or you know what's the bill is going to be when you go to a doctor or dentist. Uh, so it is.

Pavel:

It's not what it appears to be. It's like america is very good about creating the facade. It's like you go into all these nice neighborhoods and like the front of a house looks so nice, but if you look at the back of the house, it's just, it's just a box shaped. You know I'm talking about like these modern, like housing communities, uh, on neighborhoods that they're building and like they would have, like what was interesting to me as well as, like you know, sometimes they would have a front of a house with like some rocks, like the facade is made out of rocks, but you knock on it and it's just plastic, so it like it looks nice but it's kind of fake.

Pavel:

Or the fact that I was surprised or shocked to learn how people live in these nice houses driving these big fancy cars, but they're actually in debt. So that's another point that, I would say, is disappointing about the American dream.

Shawn:

I do remember when we were buying a house. It's actually kind of an interesting commentary about our mindsets and how different they were. When we were buying a house, you, Pavel, had a really difficult time understanding why you only put a certain amount down and then take out the mortgage for the rest of your house. You likened it to like being enslaved to banks or something.

Pavel:

And to me.

Shawn:

I was like well, that's just how you do it. Like I couldn't wrap my brain around how else you would do it.

Pavel:

Yeah, yeah, like I. I never, I never took a loan for anything. Because, like, why would I buy myself a car that I cannot afford? Like my first car in New Zealand costs $1,700, because that's what I could afford. So I just bought what I could afford. And when, when our neighbor bought a fancy Mercedes car, I looked at him. I'm like, why would you? Why would you do that? Like, like, why would you have a, a car that you cannot afford? Because you also have to maintain it and, like, pay more, like it's. It seems like, yeah, like you, you become a slave of some sort to to the comfort Like you live in the very nicely furnished cage, don't?

Pavel:

mean to sound depressing but, in a way, it is right.

Shawn:

What was debt culture like in Honduras.

Christina Korpi:

I think, similar, especially when I first I moved there in 2011. And I think that since then, there's much more credit that is used today, in 2025, than there was back in 2011. Hearing and talking to people about how first you would buy the land and then you might build one room, and then you would add on a second room and then you would add on a third room, and so you wouldn't buy a house, like we do here, that's just all ready to go and has a price tag. You would maybe start building and build as much as you could afford at a time. That said, there were a lot of people that couldn't afford the land or building, and so there was a lot of intergenerational living or people living with friends or family or siblings in the same house because they couldn't afford to buy their own, and I think that that's a reflection. That was also a reflection of people just wouldn't like you wouldn't go into debt to buy homes.

Christina Korpi:

However, I think that the since then, over the last 15 years, I think that credit has become more accessible and more readily used in Honduras than it than it was back then, and that's also kind of scary to see, because I think the interest rates of Honduras are really terrible and worse than we have here, and yet people are using it because they have to or they can, in order to have businesses or homes of their own or cars of their own, and so I see people going into more debt than they ever used to, at a higher interest rate than we experienced, and so it just kind of seems.

Christina Korpi:

And yet they have a much lower income or annual salary than we would here, and so I just see a lot of people going into debt and the debt growing at scary rates. But that's know, they see it as a necessity in order to have a car or to have a home, and so it's just a. It's also interesting to witness and to hear about and to talk about and relate it to the United States and how most people here are in debt, but it's also a little bit different than what debt looks like in Honduras.

Shawn:

Another thing that I'm talking to a lot of people about is the fact that a lot of Americans, given how strong the US dollar is, one of the considerations moving abroad is that they can stretch that dollar out much further than they can in the United States.

Shawn:

But we are living through a period of time in which that US dollar, when we take that other places, can create cost of living crises in certain corners of the world. A lot of Latin American countries are very attractive to Americans, and particularly retirees, because they can retire with a certain degree of luxury with their savings that they couldn't in the United States. But that also creates some problems in these countries that they're moving to, because locals often can't afford that right and so it might price them out of the housing market, etc. If I think about Honduras, I know that Roatan is a hotspot. I don't think that the answer to that is that people should absolutely not move to places that they want to, but I do think there's a way to do this responsibly and to consider how their presence in the US dollar might be impacting the community. So have you ever given any thought to how Americans can be doing this responsibly or what they should be thinking about?

Christina Korpi:

I mean, I think, as you mentioned Roatan, I think some of the largest disparities I've ever seen have been on the islands of Utila and Rotan in Honduras, where you've got a lot of expats coming in and then you have around the corner the slums of Hondurans that are living on the islands, and it's very, very difficult and sad to see. And I think it's a reflection of just what you're talking like. Even if, if you're retired from the US, you're not making, you're not working and making a salary anymore, but you're living off of a retirement that's likely more than what people in Honduras might make on a monthly basis. You're just going to have a very different lifestyle and I think that in places where there are a lot of expats, you can really really see those differences and the disparities, and it's really quite hard to see.

Christina Korpi:

I think that when you consider living abroad, I think it's always good to look at what is the average monthly income for locals, and in Honduras right now it's like between six and seven hundred dollars a month, um.

Christina Korpi:

And so then when you think about, like, how much money are you living off of each month and how does that compare to what a local um might be getting as an as an average wage and what kind of lifestyles might you be living and how does that differ from what they might be living?

Christina Korpi:

I think that's always, it's always just good to consider all of those things and think about that and think about the impact that you might have on the community around you If you're moving in and you're living off of 6,000 a month and your neighbor's living off of 600 a month or more. I think it's good to be aware. I'm sure I have more thoughts than that, but I think my first, my first thought or what comes to mind first, is kind of just making sure that you are aware and engaged in the country that you're moving to or the country that you're living in, and kind of understanding what the average person lives like and what the average cost of living is and what people are, what most people are spending on their housing, what most people are spending on their groceries, and at least being aware so that you know. You know how, how you differ or how you, how your experience might differ from, from your neighbors and the community you're in.

Shawn:

So, if we take all of your living abroad experiences in the collective, what do you think are some of the most rewarding aspects of living abroad?

Christina Korpi:

I think that engaging with another culture is just is a really rich experience if you, if you have the opportunity to experience it.

Christina Korpi:

I think being able to witness and experience the joys of life that that different communities and different cultures experience in a different way than what we are used to or what you have been used to in your life so far, I think that also.

Christina Korpi:

I mean, obviously this depends on what country you're going to, but I think that the engaging with nature in a different way, I think that we in the United States have a limited, especially if you're living in a big city, you just have a limited experience or engagement with the nature and farming.

Christina Korpi:

Or you know you go to the grocery store for everything but you don't necessarily see where your fruits and vegetables are coming from or where your milk is coming from. And I think being able to experience that and and in my, in my experience in Honduras, but I think also in in many countries closer to the equator just living primarily outdoors rather than indoors, I think we, mostly due to weather, but also our lifestyle, we're very much an indoor society in the United States and I think being in a place where people are just living most of their life you go inside to sleep, but most of your life and most of your whether you're cooking, whether you're playing, whether you're working, if it's mostly outside it's a very different experience and a different engagement with nature and the earth. That, I think, is really eye-opening and it's really an opportunity to understand humanity in a different way, and I think that was a very rewarding and valuable experience that I was able to have.

Pavel:

Out of those three years, what's the most memorable experience and what would you say you learned after these three years that you lived there?

Christina Korpi:

well, I think, I mean, I, my experience was working. I was working with children and youth, and I think that being in a different culture, in a different community and in in just a completely different lifestyle was, I think. And now having a child of my own, I think I think about that often. I think that I think about how children were engaged, the daily activities, how they participated in their daily living. And then looking at kids in the United States and how they are taken care of and how their experience with the world is different and what the expectations are of them.

Christina Korpi:

Or think that having, I think that seeing and witnessing such a different um, a different way of life and a different, a different way to come up in this world made me really consider, like, how do we raise our children here and how do we make global citizens out of people? And how, what, what are the values that we need to instill in our young people and what are, um, what makes us give back to humanity versus only think about ourselves? And and I think that having that experience just really opened up my, opened up my eyes and opened up my, my mind and my heart to like what does, what does that look like. And and what are we? We, what do we do well, and what could we do differently to really create a, create a society that's more caring and more you know human humanity oriented versus um individualistic?

Pavel:

yeah, and community oriented right, yeah, yeah, exactly where you show up to help others and then others come and help you. Yeah, exactly that for you, right?

Christina Korpi:

yeah, yeah, I was just talking to a friend recently about like reciprocity and gratitude and um how with our children, like you hope that that just comes naturally and you hope that they just give back and and want to give back because they feel grateful for everything they've been given. But I think that the reality is in in United States there's you have to teach your children to be grateful and teach your children to be to, to participate in reciprocity, and and I think that's it doesn't come. Maybe it used to come more naturally, but I feel like more and more it's something that you have to teach and it doesn't it doesn't necessarily come naturally to our children.

Pavel:

Would you say it's because like here, like relationships, that probably most people have a kind of very transactional?

Christina Korpi:

yeah, I think so. I think there's a lot of transactional. I think there's a lot. I think there's less and less just like comfort with, I mean, strangers is too much like within community. People are just, they have their small pockets of their family, basically, and they're they're less comfortable engaging with their neighbors. I think even in my lifetime I grew up in the Seattle area and I grew up in a cul-de-sac where everyone was just kind of like constantly hanging out and I think there are some communities that do that. But I think more and more kids are just inside their own houses and maybe not learning to engage with their community in that way.

Pavel:

I grew up in a small town as well and you go outside to play and that's how you learn to interact with other kids and other people. And here in the States you drive your kid to the school. You drive to whatever activities he or she have after a school or like. If you want to set up like a social time for your kid, you have to plan it.

Christina Korpi:

it's not like your kid can just go outside and play with neighbors, right yeah, exactly, and I think that in honduras like whether it was whether it was in the home that I worked at with all the kids or whether it was in the communities, um, and the villages surrounding it you, in the home that I worked at with all the kids, or whether it was in the communities and the villages surrounding the afternoon, would roll around and a bunch of kids would go out to the field or the park in the community and play soccer, and it would just bring people together and there's a whole kind of community coming together. And I think that that's less and less so in our in our neighborhoods.

Pavel:

And you know that you play soccer if you're on an organized sports team, but you're not necessarily just going to the going to the field at five o'clock in the afternoon for a pickup game yeah, like you have to set up an appointment to exactly to go and play football or something, or another thing that I I started doing myself here as as, as like you know, I became American, is that in the past I would just like call people if I wanted to talk with somebody, and now I text and ask like, oh, do you want to talk about? You know, talk this time or that time, with that time work for you, as opposed to you know being a little bit more natural and spontaneous. It seems like you have to like plan, or you might like offend people if you call and interrupt something. Right.

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, absolutely.

Shawn:

When I think about my childhood, you know we would just my friends and I, we would just show up at each other's houses at any time, just knock on the door. And now, by way of example, we've been in your neck of the woods a lot lately, christina, and the last time I was like, you know, let's just stop at Christina's. I was thinking this and then I was like, well, no, I mean, that'd be really awkward. But like what is it that people that we think people are doing? Now? They can't be bothered for somebody to drop by, right? But at the same time, if somebody did just show up, I think in the back of my mind I'd be like what the hell's going on?

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I wonder if our expectations are just too high, like I wonder if it used to just be okay to offer. I don't know, you could just offer whatever you have, and maybe that's a couple of crackers and a glass of water, and now people are like I can't have people over unless I have X, y and Z to serve them, and I wonder if that's part of it. But I think also, just, we are less of a spontaneous society and we like to be more controlled and planned.

Shawn:

For people that are thinking about moving abroad. We all hope that we have the opportunity to plan to do so For one reason or another. Sometimes people don't and they have to make a move pretty quickly. But for people that have the ability to plan, and drawing on maybe some of your experience, what advice would you give people?

Christina Korpi:

that are thinking about moving abroad.

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, I think that's a great question.

Christina Korpi:

I think that the thing that came to mind, or that comes to mind first, is just to go with an open mind.

Christina Korpi:

I think that the folks that have the hardest time moving abroad whether it's the hardest time adjusting or whether it's the hardest time being accepted are the ones who tend to have a more closed mind or expect what they're used to or expect that they're going to be able to live with the same way of living or the same customer service or the same attention to detail, or whatever it might be that you're used to or that you've experienced in your own country or in the United States. And I think that whenever you go to another country, you really have to go with an open mind and the intention not to judge the differences, but to try to accept the differences and try to assimilate as much as you can. I think that your experience will be a lot more enjoyable and a lot more genuine if you're able to assimilate and accept the culture and the experience that you are living in the moment, because I think that the more expectation or the more that you bring with you, the more challenging it will be to to enjoy the country and the experience for what it is, rather than what it is in comparison to where you come from.

Pavel:

Don't try to control. It could be looked at as an experience of letting go of control and just seeing what's out there.

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, yeah, just seeing what's out there.

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah, would you ever consider moving abroad again?

Christina Korpi:

Yeah, I think so, um, but probably not in the near future. I think, uh, with a young child, I think you know education is very important, um, and a sense of um, continuity and stability. And there's a lot of. There's a lot of disruption when you move abroad and I think, when speaking about education in particular, there's a lot of education systems that may be different or or not quite to the to the standard that you're expecting in some countries, or it might be better in other countries.

Christina Korpi:

But I think that right now I'm in a position where I can't really see myself making that transition in the near future. I think that, also, coming out of college, it was an easy time to transition. I was going to be in transition regardless because I had just finished a big chapter and it was kind of like, well, what's next? But I think right now I'm pretty settled and my community and my family is nearby and I think I'm at a stage in life that it would feel difficult to leave that all and go do something different. But I also often fantasize about what that would look like, what country that might be. There's something beeping.

Shawn:

I'll be back. There's something beeping, pavlo, I think you have always done that.

David Lesperance:

That's Pavlo.

Shawn:

I'll be back.

Pavel:

I'll be back.

Christina Korpi:

But yeah, I think I definitely would consider it, but I think the timing would be sometime in the future and not immediately.

Shawn:

Pavlo, are you back?

Pavel:

Yeah, pavlo is done. Yeah, now it's resting.

Shawn:

Okay, speaking of resting, I think we're done, yay. So, christina, thank you.

Pavel:

Thank you, thank you.

Shawn:

Okay, you guys ready to go have some wine and dinner?

Christina Korpi:

Sounds good.

Shawn:

Honduras isn't exactly rolling out the red carpet for expats, but it is offering options, especially for retirees and financially self-sufficient Americans. Two popular visa routes are the pensionado for those with a guaranteed $1,500 a month income think Social Security or a pension and the rentista for unearned income of $2,500 a month. You should expect paperwork, background checks, notarized documents and medical certificates but once approved you get a residency card which is renewable annually, with permanent residency possible after five years. Popular expat havens include places like Roatan, which has Caribbean beauty with a dive scene, english speakers and a rising expat community. Being an island, it is pricier than the mainland, though Utila is another island off the coast of Honduras. It's budget-friendly and it has backpacker charm If you want to stay on the mainland.

Shawn:

Copan Ruinas is a mountain town near Guatemala, so it's got cooler air and it's filled with Mayan ruins. The cost of living in Honduras is low. You can expect to spend maybe $300-$500 a month for rent, $10-$20 for dinners and $30 for doctor visits. Private health care is the norm for expats in Honduras. For serious care, regional travel or US visits might be needed and as it relates to safety, you should avoid big city trouble spots. Expat hubs and tourist zones like Roatan and Copan are much safer. Just use common sense and, importantly, remember, as Christina said, you're bringing wealth into a country where many live with far less. So be mindful, respectful and intentional in how you engage with your new community. All right, next week we're discussing the ins and outs of the digital nomad visa and we'll be taking a look at Southeast Asia, where the cost of living is lower and the Wi-Fi is faster than you think, and you may need to adjust to things being spicy and fried whole. This is Leaving America, because sometimes home isn't where you started. Thank you,

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Shawn C. Fettig

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